Any city lawyers trying to have it all?!

[CoffeeAndCarrotCake]

Is it even possible? I've been back for a month, and the first couple of weeks were fine as it was all a bit of a novelty. Now though, I just miss DD so much and am hating the fact that she's going to be so much closer to my DH, MIL, nursery carers, au pair...(bloke in the corner shop, chap who delivers the curry, window cleaner....) than she will be to me. She might forget me altogether!!

Have any of you been back for a little longer and found it's not so bad, or planning to pack it in altogether?!

I'm not a lawyer, but have a busy job. I practically always get home in time to read a story, and don't work weekends, so it's not a total train wreck. But for us it's the strain on the family of both parents with busy jobs that's really difficult. There's just not enough time for anything really so we're all always tired. Trying to work out what we should do now - I'm on the same lines as tinto.

I co-slept with ds3 for a year, just because I never had time to get to know him except at night.

There's no right role model - you can be a vile wohm and a vile sahm. Role models are kind, intelligent people who teach their children morality, self-confidence, self-respect and respect for others. Has nothing to do with whether you're a lawyer or not. Or whether you're a woman or a man.

I would have stayed longer but things were going wrong in the team generally (there's a big element of luck when you go back - you want to have work to do but not too much and hopefully not involving too much travel).

I was in tears about leaving but within a day or two of starting my own business (which is being a legal consultant anyway so it's the same kind of work but no meetings, no boss, etc) it seemed a much better way to spend my time.

Sometimes now I work 35 hours per week, sometimes 5. When I've got too much work on, I refuse to take on any more. Marketing is much easier when you're just selling yourself, rather than a "style" you may or may not like. If you've got enough PQE years to demonstrate a "pedigree" (I'd say you want about 8 years including your maternity leave periods) then it's a route I'd recommend to anyone who doesn't deal with vulnerable clients/administer oaths/conduct high court litigation or do other things where you really need the Law Society's backup.

I think I'm a positivish story (that's for anniemac!). I'm a transactional lawyer for a City firm, with ds 9 and dd almost 8, oh and a lively dh - that's relevant because it means we both genuinely enjoy a slightly over-egged lifestyle ... I think someone mentioned "stamina" on one of these threads and we have that. (Dh thinks I am addicted to adrenaline, which is probably true. But not necessarily a bad thing?)

When I went back after dd I asked for a 4-day week & they said no, clients won't like that, but how about the annual equivalent - so an 80% year (ie, 14ish weeks of leave time, to take when work permits)? I jumped at it and have done a version of that ever since - actually 80% is too much time off: I do between 85 & 90%, which means I can be away for a big solid chunk of school holidays.

Note: I am, accordingly, NOT technically "having it all". Particularly, and more soberly, because it does mean it's put a ceiling on promotion, and at 46 being a "career associate" is starting to look a bit anomalous in the legal economy. I do need to think about that a bit more ...

One thing which having children did for me is make me realise that I was in many ways quite bored by being a lawyer.

So my feeling is that if you are fundamentally still v keen on the job, working fulltime will probably work out for you in the end if you have enough support, paid and otherwise, but having a baby does rather focus your mind on any doubts you may have.

I think you are right, anniemac, that doing an essentially busy job at half-tilt is frustrating and likely to make one less enthusiastic about it. And the fact that people take you less seriously if you are p/t or flexible or whatnot is demoralising in itself. Which is why I tend to think the OP needs to figure out how much she likes the job itself (and/or needs the money)...

anniemac - no I haven't met you, I think - I can't always make the City meet-ups, for reasons to do with trying to squeeze the work in ...

I'm paid pro rata (at 85%) across the year; if I happen to do more than 85% the excess gets paid as extra chunk at the end of the year.

The work has, perhaps unexpectedly, seemed to quite naturally fit the schedule - finance deals (my area) tend to go quiet over the summer; and of course as I'm not a partner there is always someone over me who's got the client liaison role & is first in line for those emergency calls. (Which of course is an incentive to give in to being a permanent team member rather than team leader.) I do keep the BlackBerry on while I'm off - involves 3 or 4 emails a week needing answers, so not very onerous; and would go in if it was urgent - but in the 7 years this arrangement's been on foot I've had to break my leave precisely once. (And then they put a bunch of flowers in my office as a thankyou.)

I do also think that, given the 40-odd years we have to work, if you want to and can afford to take a few years off to be with your children when they are very small, that's no bad thing, but it is not a choice which seems to be easily accommodated by some careers, law being one...

prof g you have my sympathies... have been on open ended sabbatical for 2 years now which i started at the point you are now. it just wasnt poossible to meet dss needs when they got to 9 and 7 with me and dp both working flat out.... good childcare wasnt enough. they needed one of us around. ds1 had competitive exams for secondary school to prepare for and do and me helping him seemed the right thing to do.... no regrets. dont miss law just the money and my work social life...

What an interesting thread. I am about to go back to a role which is part transactional and part advisory after my second lot of mat leave.

I'm not sure what having it all means but I am trying I think. I'm going back working 4 days a week, one of which will be at home. Not sure whether it will work, but I am going to try.

Bink, your arrangement sounds fab, that is definitely something I would consider although it would be harder with the non-transactional work.

I am lucky that I was promoted during my maternity leave so I am in the fortunate position of having no immediate promotion pressures. But I am very nervous about going back into a more senior role at the same time as adjusting to being part time and being a mum of 2.

Being full time seemed to work ok for all of us before my mat leave. DH is around a lot which helps. I don't think my bond with DD was any less strong but she definitely has a great bond with DH and that is brilliant and probably due to me working. I just felt being full time with two pre-school children wasn't going to be possible without completely sacrificing any time for myself so I am going to see how being part time works.

I think whether or not it works depends on your team and how supportive they are. It can work but its hard work but then the salaries we are paid do reflect the expectations placed on us. You can't have it all ways I guess. I will be earning much more working 4 days a week than my alternatives if I worked 5 days a week in another role.

I agree that Binkmay be my new role model too!! Sounds like a good flexible arrangement - my boys are probably slightly too young for that as I would need a FT nanny some weeks and no help others. I'm not sure how that would work. But something to think about once they are at school.
I am feeling a bit calmer and less stressed now I've had the weekend at home but I'm dreading going into the office tomorrow to catch upon all I've missed whilst I've been at home, doing my other job! I work in "restructuring" (used to be insolvency) and the dept as a whole is busy. I'm at a loss at the moment as to how to get being part time to work without having to seriously throw my weight around and force the juniors to do some of my work load (quite frankly a lot of it is more suitable for someone 2-4pqe, not 9pqe like me!). I'm not there enough breathing down their necks though...
On the promotion side of things I've asked for promotion to director to recognise my seniority, ability etc. Will wait and see...

My Dh thinks it will take a long time for me and the team to settle with my role and 5 months is not long enough. I know I would like a 3rd DC so am wondering if I shouldn't just get pg and avoid the issue altogether!!!!

Another viewpoint - specifically for anniemac re partnership (although caveated in that I'm not a lawyer - I'm a partner in a Big 4 accountancy firm).

Don't think of partnership as being more of the same job you are currently doing - it's quite difficult to explain but it is very subtly different. You will still be doing a lot of the same type of work, but the job is different - it is demanding in very different ways but also rewarding in very different ways (apart from the obvious financial benefits).

In my experience the biggest difference is about decision making - on my clients and my projects the buck truly stops with me - and as a consequence I have to make judgement calls that could have serious implications for my clients and me if I get them wrong. This imposes a very different type of work pressure to the general "too much to do too little time" work pressure that is endemic in professional services.

It's different because decision making really is about quality of thought not quantity of work - so as a consequence a partner's job does become more flexible. I still work long hours (by "normal" ie non City reckoning) but they tend to be when it suits me. For example, I'm going to be in late tomorrow because there's a parents meeting at dd's school at 9am which I want to go to.

If you are the sort of person who thrives on the challenge of ultimate responsibility then partnership is great - I suspect it helps to have self belief and strong controlling tendencies. And it's the second of these I think that can cause part time careers to falter. if you are able to effectively switch off mentally from the office during working hours then you perhaps don't have the "need" to achieve promotion. And, in my firm and probably most others to get promotion you have to be not just technically and commercially qualified but there's also a certain emotional issue as well which is difficult to describe but is sometimes labelled as "commitment". It's not just that though, it's something that you can't pretend - you either really want it or you don't.

If you can find too many reasons not to go for promotion or excuses why you won't get it - then it almost certainly isn't actually what you want. Life is full of compromises - every decision you make to do something is equally a decision not to do something else. The secret is to know what is right for you - not for your friends, colleagues, strangers on an internet forum. You're leading your life not theirs.

I think I've got it right for me - that's not to say I don't have bad days but I'm fundamentally happy with my family, job, house, finances, life etc. And, as a result, I don't feel threatened by other's choices - it may make me question my decision, but it hasn't (so far - and I'm pretty ancient now) made me wish I'd made any different choices. And if that's not having it all - it's certainly having enough for me.

I'm a partner in a large City law firm, doing almost exclusively transactional work. I'm always drawn to these threads like a moth to a flame! (Hi Bink and Mrs W - "I suspect it helps to have self belief and strong controlling tendencies" - LOLOL). My DH works in an investment bank, so we do have quite a "challenging" set of circumstances in some ways.

There are a lot of ingredients as to what makes lifestyles "work" for some people and not others. We have opted to stay reasonably central in London (Zone 2) rather than move somewhere leafier as we could not reconcile a commute, but other people may prioritise larger gardens etc.

I was thinking most about the part of your post about your Dc being closer to your nanny. Firstly, I don't think it does happens like that, and secondly I think that conversely a strong relationship between a nanny and child is to be encouraged, and not something to feel excluded by or "threatened" by. My children are nearly 5 and nearly 7. The first nanny we had stayed for 4 years (she left entirely amicably to go travelling). We is still a huge friend of the family. We speak often (she asks DH and I advice about work related things etc)still see her and in fact she came over this weekend to take the DCs out for a pizza (her choice/treat), then babysat as DH and I were going to a party, so she put them to bed and stayed over. While she was here they all talked to her parents on the phone, because they wanted to hear how the DCs were getting on as well. She is getting married to our builder (LOL) and Dd is going to be bridesmaid. She adores the children and they her (they also completely love our current nanny).

I'm a firm believer in the "more people loving and caring for my children the better" approach. So if my children are very close to their nanny I think it is a very good thing, and not something to worry about.

Am in tax here and DCs 8&10. Despite working ridiculous hours, I remain entirely confident about two things:

(1) I love my children very much and they are the centre of my world

(2) They love me very much too, and I am still the centre of their world. The fact they care about other people in no way diminishes the love they have for me.

I don't know whether women feel insecure about their children's affection, or whether they don't enjoy their work, or whether they lose confidence and ground during maternity leave. Whatever the causes, probably a combination of factors, an awful lot of women do leave the world of paid employment.

The phrase "having it all" is entirely ludicrous and insidiously sexist as other posters have said.

Bink - why can't you get promoted when working 85%? Doesn't make sense to me.

Also, thought I might add that we have full-time maid plus au pair, both live in, and can't imagine me and dh both working the hours we do without at least that support. Hats off to those who do.

Just to say something positive to the OP - I worked full -time when DS1 was between 8 months and 20 months. When I look back over the past 5 1/2 years, there are a few things I regret but that isn't one of them. It's fine if you're confident in your bond.

One nice thing - when I took days off and spent them with my SAHM friends, they were always astonished by how much effort and energy I put into playing with the children. I got favourite aunt status!! When you're away from them, you do get refreshed and ready to connect again.

I think a lot of Mrs W's comments about partnership will chime in law firms. The main difference, though, is the partner/assistant ratio, which means that if you want to work flexibly as a lawyer, it really helps to be a partner. Look at the number of people here who have posted about the problems of juniors who are too important to be delegated to by a mere 9PQE. In my view, the ideal time to push for partnership is when the DCs are babies. At that age you control the childcare (to the extent it can be controlled); when school starts setting timetables for you, not only without consultation, but also at short notice, it gets much harder to juggle.

And Bink, oh role model, where on earth do you work?! Not promoting part-timers is soooo 1990s. How about saying now that you want to be promoted, even if it's only to get the message across that in tough times you remain keen and committed, and are not just in it for the pin money?

I agree delegating at my level is vital. Actually on paper the more qualified you are the easier it should be to be part-time, esp in the age of Blackberrys etc. Remote supervision is much easier than it was. However, no-one ever seems to have the capacity to do anything I ask (or of they do, they say no anyway!). Given it's Sept we have a few NQs starting but my the time I got round to them on Tues lunchtime last week they were already too busy to help!!! Without soundng like a grumpy old woman that would have never happened in my day! As a NQ I never had a full work load as far as my seniors were concerned. Huh.

Not sure how to go about it really - I don't want to go bleating to my boss, he won't care too much and it will look bad when I'm trying to be taken seriously for a promotion. The alternative is to give a junior no choice but to do it which will make me unpopular - given that i need team members to do me a "favour" on my days off also not really an option.

Apologies to the OP I seem to have highjacked the thread a little. I would say though, as others have done, I am the centre of my boys' universe and in no way no they forget who I am. I also think consistency is key and a strong relationship with a reliable and permanent carer is important. Kids only really suffer when they are pulled from pillar to post with differing carers with whom they have no bond.