Sexual harassment grievance at work

[User12334]

I've had a bit of a difficult time in work recently for lots of reasons, but mostly due to a male colleague. A couple of months back, my small team which is predominantly male were in a meeting, I had a v neck dress on and was quite fine and was happily going about my business. A few hours in for whatever, one of the male colleagues leaves the room, returns and hands me a safety pin clearly indicating to cover myself up. He said that "you can go use the private room". It took me a minute to actually process what was happening and I abruptly left the meeting, where my two managers were a bit like what's going on.
I stupidly used the pin because i was just so taken aback, I returned and felt like running away. At the end of the meeting, same colleague caught me at the end and said "did you manage to regain your modesty", which again I was so taken aback with I started justifying my dress choice.

We then were going on to do some social activities as a team day which I could see far enough, I did a detour to tesco to get a vest top to go underneath the dress, to which he again comes up to me and says "are you more comfortable now" 🙃

This isn't the first time he's giving me the ick but it's the first time it's gone too far. He has a habit of mansplaining things to me or talking over me in meetings etc. Dirty humour is really not my thing and when he has tried it in the past I've just ignored it or tried to change the subject but he continues anyway.

Anyway, I raised a grievance and everyone at work was really supportive until they weren't. I feel like since he had his review everyone's been like on his side in a way. A member of HR phoned me before I got the letter out and told me how distraught he was about the whole thing and that that should hopefully make rebuilding our relationship easier. My manager has outright said before as well when I have said about not wanting to be in a room alone with him that I need to be able to work with him again.

Fast forward a few weeks, we have a catch up where he actually fails to apologise without me prompting and is playing the neurodivergent card to explain his behaviour. I am also neurodivergent and know plenty of others who are but haven't sexually harassed their colleague.

I'm currently off work because I was feeling too run down by the whole thing and have recently discovered I'm pregnant. Before all this, I would only see this colleague face to face once a month at most as we are spread out geographically. My managers are now proposing we rotate office each week so we can work together more - despite being in the same team we all work on completely different things and have always worked primarily remotely. The travel to the other offices for me is 2.5/3 hours each way if the trains are on time. They are also aware of my pregnancy so between that and the grievance I'm really feeling a bit miffed about everything.

I don't really know what the point of this post is, I guess I'm just looking for some advice or maybe to be told I'm overthinking it and need to get over it lol.

how much naked breast was visible, if he is nd and felt your breasts were exposed and you’d lost your modesty then he could have been trying to help you.

I don’t see this as sexual harassment, I see this has maybe he was insensitive

I also don’t see it as sexual harassment, but he’s not her manager – its not his job for him to address her work clothing and it’s inappropriate for him to.

It was very minimal cleavage, no naked breast lol, i could have understood it as a clunky way of offering help if it wasn't for the bringing it up again afterwards and if it hadn't been for the prior context

Exactly this, I wish I had flung it at him and told him to shove it but I was really taken aback by it and questioned myself as I'm sure many women have in similar situations when we absolutely shouldn't be. I won't ever let it happen again, but it was awkward and it took reflection to realise how bad his behaviour was.

Drawing attention to someone's sexual characteristics under the guise of "helping" sure sounds like sexual harassment to me.

Of course this is sexual harassment, even the off-colour jokes could be seen as sexual harassment depending on your workplace policy. Well done for making a complaint! If he’s singling you out for jokes or comments because you’re female it could also constitute discrimination on the basis of the protected characteristic of sex. You might consider keeping a log of these behaviours and insisting that HR ensure that it stops. Anyway he sounds like an arse and I’m sorry you have to deal with this. Good luck with baby!

What a time to be alive. On one hand we wonder how on earth 57 members of a fraternity saw messages inviting rape and no one challenged it or stopped the gang rape of a young woman, and in the other defend a man feeling he has the right to police what a woman wears under the guise of modesty. And seem unable to make the link between men thinking they have the right to comment on and control what a woman wears, with the ultimate entitlement to use a woman’s body any way they choose.

Yes there’s a gap between the two, but not challenging the former is a step closer to the latter.

It’s not a massive leap. The entitlement of men and the minimization of it by some women and lots of men is a toxic combination

I think mentioning it might be better to cover up once is fine, but it should be done more discreetly than in a meeting with other people, although it sounds like it's a him problem more than you. But then he keeps going on about regaining your modesty and feeling more comfortable - that is absolutely unnecessary. There was no need to mention it ever again.

I would find the efforts to get you to work face-to-face as unhelpful at best, if you don't actually need to work together on a piece of work.

I think working in a male dominated team as well makes it easier to question myself

Totally get this. I was talking to HR yesterday about how we could improve the culture, and she was saying, "when I read this in your mail, I was really shocked," and I was thinking, but that isn't that bad.

There are changes to the law about workplace harassment coming in this month, and employers will need to be more active about preventing it.

Really? You think men have the right to tell women to cover up? She was wearing a v-neck dress in a professional environment and has been clear she wasn’t showing her tits. If he can’t cope with the female form he can avert his eyes.

Why is it his role to tell her to “cover up”? He’s not her manager and he’s not HR. Why does his opinion trump her opinion? Where does this end up -is she “allowed” to wear polo neck jumpers, does she “have” to wear trousers?

If a male colleague had his fly open ? It's not a million miles away is it .

Again if a male colleague had his fly open ? Maybe he gen though it was innapropriate for the environment.

Do you mean that the equivalent? Not really – having your flies open is an objective wardrobe malfunction. That is not equivalent from passing judgement on someone's modesty – especially when said colleague isn't even her manager.

Depends on where you work ,is their a dress code , If I worked in a office and a male colleague came in with his shirt unbottoned by more than 3 I'd be thinking bit much same as if his fly was undone . Just cos we are women it does not mean we can go to work in what we want and make ppl feel uncomfortable,that's not equality its privilege . If your collegues have all withdrawn support it suggests the general consensus is you are being a bit unreasonable. Guess I'd have to see the dress /top op . I don't see sexual Harrasment to be honest I think he may have embarrassed you which was unkind . Also if your ND you should know it's a massive spectrum witha. When.ranhe of behaviour and differences and some ppl do read social situations poorly and can be quite blunt . If he's apologised and expressed remorse I'd put it down to a misunderstanding and draw a line .

Exactly the inappropriate fly open would be beyond the man's control ,but it would still make a colleague uncomfortable,why can't this man be uncomfortable with a woman showing more than is appropriate. I should imagine if a man cut a whole n the crotch of his pants and went in to work with half a bollock out and said I can wear what I like he'd be sent home sharpish .Seems to be some double standards here . If ops colleagues are not being supportive it kind of indicates maybe her top wasn't suitable work wear ? We will never know unless we see it .

If she is not wearing suitable workwear then it is for her managers to address, not for a colleague to a) arrange a safety pin for her b) comment on her modesty either within or outside of the workplace.

In the event that he is genuinely uncomfortable by her work clothes, then the appropriate action is for him to raise it with his line manager and for management to decide if her clothing breeches their work policies. Not for him to take the matter into his own hands.

FYI – having genitals exposed is illegal, having cleavage exposed is not.

It wasn't inappropriate, my manager agreed there was nothing wrong with my dress and several others confirmed there was nothing inappropriate, I was seated it wasnt even like if I bent over he saw my bra. I agree with others that it wasn't for him to decide if it was inappropriate. I've attached a similar dress, I am a plus size women with larger breasts but I still feel like it was fine, I only questioned it at the time because I was taken off guard and then felt insecure.

It's funny because the day before one of the other male colleagues had their fly and he quietly gestered to him that his fly was open, as opposed to publicly pointing it out. I would never have noticed it was open cause I dont generally look at my colleagues crotches

Your argument isn’t equivalent. A man with his fly unfastened is clearly a wardrobe malfunction and one I assume wasn’t intended. Cutting your clothes to show your genitalia is a purposeful, illegal act (indecent exposure).

This is a woman, in a professional workplace in appropriate clothing, as confirmed by her manager. And a man deciding he wants her to cover up, and publicly telling her so. Maybe he should reflect on why he feels uncomfortable with his colleagues choice of clothes, recognise his paternalistic, misogynistic attitude and challenge himself to mind his own business instead of shaming a woman in front of his male colleagues.

Maybe you should reflect on why you think men should have the final say in what women wear and why women should dress to accommodate male attitudes.

From experience, trust your instincts. In my mid-40s I worked with a man who acted inappropriately to me, I raised it with my LM but didn't pursue a formal complaint as I questioned myself over whether his behaviour was intentional or accidental.
Fast forward a few years (I had left the org for another role, not due to him) and he was dismissed for sexual harassment against other female employees.
In my experience, if you feel something is off, it's because it's off.

Maybe you should reflect on why you think men should have the final say in what women wear and why women should dress to accommodate male attitudes.

Is it just that way, though? We have guys who wear shorts, and I wasn't entirely comfortable with one guy whose shorts were on the tight side. I didn't say anything, but if I had, I would have said it first to him, no need to involve his manager at this point. And I would not have done it publicly.

Can't see anything wrong with the dress in the picture, though.

So the outcome of the grievance is to punish you with a long commute to work with the person who caused offence. I'd take out another grievance about that.

Me too.

Op ignore the odd poster on here that can't see how much of a boob-obsessed creep this man clearly is. You were right to raise it (as demonstrated by the outcome of your grievance). Continue working and log any further references to your body that he makes and also take those to HR.

OP I think you need to separate out a few different things.

Colleague was inappropriate = 100% agree, but essentially so does your employer - the grievance was upheld. Unless he does something else, just treat him as politely as you can.

Other colleagues are siding with him = you admit that is just a feeling. You don't know this. Perhaps they are, perhaps they don't want to get too involved, perhaps they just want to be polite or even friendly because they know they have to work with both of you. Take a step back and do the same. At the end of the day they don't HAVE to be on your side, they aren't your friends.

Moving working patterns = It's not clear if they're only moving yours and his working patterns, or everyone in your team's. If the latter it might feel more targeted than it is. If the first then yeah, that is dodgy and something I'd query.

At the end of the day, you're pregnant, you're already off sick, I'd struggle on with the next few months as it's a short time in the scale of things. You can't be sacked with pregnancy related illness so if you need to take a few days off because the commute is too much, do it. Then you'll have time off with baby - it's amazing how much things can change in 18 (ish) months. He might have left by then or be in a different team, you'll have different priorities, might come back doing fewer hours or whatever, the new system might have changed again, etc. Just get through the next few months, don't kick up a fuss or endanger your mat leave, then take the rest as it comes down the line.