indirect discrimination against working mother

[SamSam786R]

Dear all,i am concerned that my employers are pushing me out of the business as working there has become impossible. as primary childcare provider for my children i require a certain amount of flexibility to work. the job i do is comms and can be done remotely. despite this i will go into the office three days a week. however, HR have told me that i must do certain days where childcare is impossible and so i am scrambling each week to find someone to watch my kids after school. they have said that this poilcy applies to all employees and NO exceptions can be made. my manager has told me that a job like mine is not suitable for working mothers and HR have stated that if i can not work around my children i need to go part time. in tandem i have now been put on an informal pip for a spelling error. since then, every mistake is emailed to me and my manager will message me on teams with all capital letters asking why i made these mistakes and that i can no longer make any mistakes at work. obviously, this along with the lack of flexibility or understanding has put me under immense stress - just today i cried in the toilet for one hour and had a minor panic attack. it might seem like a small thing, but these small aggressive remarks and confrontational emails have taken a huge toll on me. futhermore, my childless colleagues have been given leeway for working hours and days due to relocations. on top of that my HR person has stated that i am not attending the office for my full hours despite him coming in after me and leaving before every week. i am also one of the few people who come into an office regularly. they have also said i have baby brain on many occasions and compared me to my male colleagues. sorry for making this so long and rambly, there are so many other things that they have said and done to me, im so tired and would LOVE to resign but i need to pay my bills and the job market is awful right now. advice on: a: how to survive and b: how to escalate this with employment tribunal. thank you

Some of the comments are discriminatory

but overall your not being discriminated against with regards to your working pattern

I can see exactly why it has to be the same for everyone
because if parents can dictate there working pattern the rest of us with no childcare issue have 2nd choice they get what’s left after parents have 1st dibs

What part of my post you quoted is 'absolute crap'?

Childcare isn't a PC. The PC in the scenario you describe would be sex.

Others have explained that there is potential for discrimination due to the disproportionate burden on women for childcare, citing a tribunal decision, which I accept (having not actually seen the case in question), but my point is that the OP hasn't provided any real evidence which would immediately point to such discrimination.

If the company has a general policy on WFH for example (which in itself wouldn't be discrimination), the OP has the opportunity to submit a formal flexible working request for some alternative arrangement. Whether to accept that would be for the company to determine based on whether it accommodates business need as well as the OP's needs. There's no evidence the OP has done this. So there's currently no evidence of discrimination.

If the OP has submitted a request, and it's been refused, then the question is what was the reason for refusal and was it reasonable, taking into account business need?

In the example of a one-off scenario the OP has since described then there is legal provision for unpaid leave (time off for dependants) but beyond that they don't have to offer more flexibility. That's partly what annual leave is there for.

Bottom line is those insisting it's definitely discrimination are just speculating because we only have one, not particularly clear, side of the story.

The bullying by a manager - if OP has the evidence - seems more clear cut to me.

So I ask again, which part of that is 'absolute crap'? Because if it is, I'll be sure to let my HR department (govt dept) know!

@PrettyPickle , probably cross-posted.

But is they are accusing her of having "Baby Brains" that does sound like discrimination Indeed, but she needs evidence.

I’d suggest either hire a nanny or find a different job. They clearly want you out, whether that’s due to incompetence or not is irrelevant.

If you can’t perform how your company expects, they have every right to be critical of you.

Yes there are appropriate ways to do so which they might have not done it seems they’ve given you many chances, feedback and been more than accommodating, now they’re sick of it.

OP it’s up to you to learn how to be an adult.

If you work 5 days a week why do you only have two days of childcare sorted?.

Well a rule that certain days have to be done in the office is indeed a provision, criterion or practice that can disadvantage women more as primary carers of children. An employer would need to be able to justify this in the event an employee claimed discrimination.

Making comments about the job not being suitable for a working mother could be direct sex discrimination or harassment related to sex though.

Take some advice if you can - got no idea why people who know fuck all about discrimination law have stuck their unhelpful beaks in.

I have no idea what's going on in your life to make you so invested in this that you are so rude to a stranger on the internet but I hope whatever it is improves soon.

You may do better actually reading and understanding my post before you jump in to criticise. But perhaps your black and white thinking and absolute conviction that you know the ins and outs of the OP's situation doesn't provide any room for a nuanced argument.

How the fuck is it not? Comments about "baby brain", comparison to male colleagues, an informal PIP for a spelling error, denial of reasonable requests for flexible working. Straight to the union.

Are you for real?

I understood your post.

What you fail to grasp is the inaccuracies that I, and others have tirelessly tried to point out to you.

Few things imo:

1. The business have to consider requests for flexible working. Consider, not agree.
2. Imo informal PIPs are awful. Worse than formal, because with a formal PiP your manager documents their expectations, smart targets and periods for the review. Informal ones carry all the pressure with no clarity or responsiblity on managers
3. Its hard to say if this is poor performance and struggling or discrimination based on info you've given. (Depends if the business had a business need to refuse your request and depends if the information pip is lazy management or based on evidenced mistakes) but its clear youre stressed and its making the chance of you making a mistake increase. Although the comparison to your colleague was wildly inappropriate and the baby brain comment certainly grounds to allege discrimination

I think you need a union rep, to explore whether the business needs are reasonable and if so what your options are I.e short office days you can finish at home later etc and what if any performance support is fair. Best of luck

I would join a union - what sector do you work in?

And forget the bollocks that employers sometimes trot out that they don’t recognise a union. Tough. Legally, you have the right for a union to represent you. Join now as often you may need to pay a certain number of months of subscriptions before they will take on your case in terms of actual representation. But they often give advice at this stage and have resources.

Get info from ACAS and Pregnant Then Screwed.

A tribunal is the final stage and it’s harder than it looks.

Certainly don’t, without very careful advice, leave and go for constructive dismissal. It’s extremely difficult to win a case based on this.

Keep a diary and paper trail. Document meetings and send unemotional bullet pointed summaries. Clarify expectations and deadlines in emails.

Speak to your GP about stress and how you are feeling bullied.

Be very careful about what you put in professional emails.

HR are the friends of the company, not yours.

Request - in writing - that feedback, although very welcome, is best done kindly, via email and with confidentiality in place.

Put the onus back on them - how can they support you? Could they support training? In any dealings it’s about tits and teeth and you being extremely positive.

A union can help you negotiate an exit strategy with a decent payoff if that’s the way you think the wind is blowing.

in terms of quality of work, don’t write copy via AI - I manage someone who does this and it’s easy to spot - but use it to polish work and improve.

I’ve been there - not as a parent, but someone with a serious mental illness (protected characteristic) and with the help of my union, I got a substantial payout. I was horribly bullied.

I lived like a student eating beans on toast for a year to rebuild my mental health; ten years later, I’m very happy and both freelance and work part-time in-house.

Exceptionally satisfying that the board of the charity I worked for FINALLY clocked the
disgusting culture and elbowed out the CEO and most of the senior team.

good luck!

Being a woman is a protected characteristic if you are being treated unfairly when compared to male employees. The 'baby brain' and 'working mothers' comment could easily be found to be discriminatory.

It’s good that you are backtracking and recognising that yes, it may well be indirect sex discrimination due to childcare responsibilities. The absolute crap is where you stated in your previous post there is no protected characteristic at play.

Also, a blanket WFH policy may be discriminatory, again I refer you back to the ACAS page on indirect discrimination.

And yes I’d suggest informing your HR department if they don’t know this or they could get themselves in trouble.

She works for a Government Department.

Not a huge surprise as they are generally the biggest culprits in bending the law to suit their own agenda.

For goodness sake. WHY would OPs MN post look or have any reflection on the work she produces in her paid employment. It's a bloody internet forum, most people are typing on their phones. Absolutely ridiculous comment

OP, what outcome do you want here?

It sounds as though you don't enjoy the job, are not really excelling in it, and don't have childcare support to work full time.

It really sounds as though you need a solution that addresses these issues - and part-time working sounds ideal?

I think you have a claim to the employment tribunal - speak to acas, union and if you can afford speak to your employment lawyers.

It isn't really. Comms people are usually utterly anal in written content. It's basically the job. These are odd posts from someone in that sector.

I know that sounds very bitchy, but it is rather incongruous.

But op isn't doing her job when she is posting on here. It does come across bitchy and rather pathetic, and is entirely irrelevant anyway. OP may very well be shite at her job, that doesn't excuse sex discrimination.

@popcornandpotatoes , I work in a Comms-related role and the OP's posts don't have a writing style that I'd expect a communicator to use.
It's not a ridiculous comment.

She may be stressed and using a phone but there's more to it than that.

OP's posts are not easy to read because of poor grammar and spelling. I assume she doesn't realise that - and that would be very difficult to manage in a comms team. It's probably brutal to point this out, but perhaps it's helpful for the OP to realise that this isn't just an issue of discrimination.

OP, you are managing a lot of tough stuff with work and life - but sorting out the practicalities of childcare (which sounds like it means working part-time) might be the key to resolving this.

Unless you have access to assess the work OP produces, I don't see how your comments could be of any help whatsoever to her.

I am just wondering, did you at any point stop halfway through typing your post to even reflect on the fact that 100% of what you have just written is legally and factually inaccurate?