I’m a Cover Supervisor and I just walked out.

[tellmesomethingtrue]

At the end of my tether. Pupils have been shouting at me, arguing with me for 3 hours straight today. I’ve told HR that I can’t cope with the final lesson and I’ve gone to sit in my car. I welcome the classes pleasantly, I am organised and the kids know me. Just because “I’m a sub” they are disrespectful and just awful. As soon as another teacher comes in to support me, the kids are fine. Today, I’ve sent 9 pupils to work elsewhere and called SLT three times. On the verge of (another) panic attack, enough is enough. I don’t think employment should be like this. Usually half the class are absolutely fine, do the right thing and work. Surely their parents would be mortified.

I did a lot of supply while I was building a new career after leaving teaching, and the experience was, at best, varied. But I had taught at a difficult school so it didn't work too badly for me. What helped enormously was supportive SLTs and Heads of Faculties who set appropriate work, and came as soon as I asked for support. I used to say quite clearly in class that I was there to provide qualified cover for their absent teacher and I would do my best to deliver the lesson, if they co-operated. If they didn't, I would make life as difficult as possible for them, and nastily I did. I did a fortnight's cover at one school for an unco-operative Year 10 class and put the outline of a coursework essay on the whiteboard with necessary quotes - and rubbed it off as we went along! If they didn't copy it fast enough, they lost out. They soon settled down to some fast copying, and finished the cover quite amicably...

But I agree it will never be easy.

Sadly it’s accepted due to fear of consequences/legal backlash from parents of the disruptive/badly behaved children. All schools have a non bullying policy, but rather than use it to expel those breaking that policy they have a desire to rehabilitate rather than exclude students.
schools also have huge legal and administrative hurdles to consider when addressing these issues. I would suspect funding plays into this somewhere too 🤔🙄

Just before I retired there was a public discussion point around putting an "eye" in every classroom so that every parent could "dial in" (that's how long ago) to check on their child's classroom and make sure the teacher wasn't bullying their child and/or reading The Guardian with their feet up on the desk.
My teachers used to say: "Oh! Yes! Bring It On!"

Meaning: by all means let parents see how a minority of certain pupils disrupt the learning of the majority.
Obviously, with Palantir (to name the Dark Lord) so deeply embedded in our systems, we would now actually fight against that tooth and claw.
However, there's something that's still a bit tempting.

I am a retired primary teacher. Took early retirement this year, mainly because of behavioural issues.30 plus years in ‘difficult’ schools but this year broke me.
However, have been thinking long and hard about this, yes behaviour is breaking down, and our immediate go to is proper deterrents. But really we should be thinking of proper engagements. Why don’t our young people want education? What are the plusses they are seeing in not engaging? There must be some reward they are receiving for this, frankly awful, behaviour.
I am nobody’s apologist, but it seems to me if we can’t crack this, we will lose this and possibly next generation of children.

On the private school v state school threads on mumsnet, inevitably people ask why people choose private. They say that the cream always rises to the top. That motivated children will thrive anywhere. And that may well be the case. But who wants to fight against the tide of this kind of behaviour experienced by the OP. It’s exactly why we send ours private. It shouldn’t be like this and I truly feel sorry for people for whom this is the only option for their children, whilst at the same time feeling relieved that I can buy my way out of it for mine.

I left my permanent job of twenty five years to do supply. I’ve been in 7 different schools for between a week and a year plus-four schools were great, three were awful. It’s to do with the culture of the school. SLT need to back up supply and cover teachers- pupils must respect them. It’s ridiculous not to-you wouldn’t disrespect a locum doctor!

I don't think that's true. This week we've had threads from a mum whose daughter was not allowed to go on a school trip to NYC because she has repeatedly run off on school trips and one from a mum whose son was permanently excluded for bullying and filming a Muslim boy praying. Both parents thought the school was being unreasonable. There are frequent threads like this.

They do it deliberately because they know you don’t have any power. Get a new job. It’s not worth it. The school won’t punish them. Good luck

"Working without QTS (The "4-Year Rule")
Overseas-trained teachers from outside the EEA can teach as a temporary or supply teacher in England for up to four years without QTS. QTS is required to continue teaching after this period."

That’s scary .

Was this a grammar in a town beginning with W by any chance? I have a son at school who mentioned a really similar event with a supply teacher this week.

I’ve just remembered that about seven years ago I had a science class added to my timetable mid-year-I’m a MFL teacher without any science qualifications above GCSE Biology and Chemistry. This class had the previous week caused their fourth cover teacher to leave the school (they couldn’t recruit a qualified science teacher). The head of science came in and told them that their behaviour was so vile that no one would teach them. Their lessons had to be shared out between experienced teachers of other subjects. Some (the nice ones) were upset, the ringleaders saw their unreachable status as a badge of honour. How I dreaded that two hours a fortnight!!

He has quite severe adhd. He is also on track for 8s and 9s at gcse though.
He is smart but can not maintain focus.
Singing is stimming, fidgeting and falling off chairs is disregulation and self regulation.
I was the same at school but I didn't know about adhd back then. Now I know why he does what he does.
If there was an alternative education setting to take high performing kids that have adhd that need to stand, sing and move around to focus then I would send him.
We tried private schools but they were even more academically rigid and we left the private system in primary as state is at least a little more accomodating.

Kids are awful awful awful to supply and cover teachers.It’s disgusting (sometimes mysogynistic) bullying and it’s often swept under the carpet. To survive in a secondary school you have to be very strict (in a positive, happy way) every minute of every day or they will eat you alive. It’s fucking exhausting!
I am very experienced but can NEVER relax with any class as although there are lovely kids in every class, there are far too many who have no respect for the teachers or their classmates. If teachers wore body cameras parents would be both horrified at some of the behaviour and in awe of how some teachers not only create order out of extreme chaos but actually deliver a high standard of education.
I am currently in bed at 8:30 on a Friday cos I’m knackered!!

Fair enough. I can appreciate that school must be quite a restrictive and challenging environment if you have ADHD, especially if it's severe. Has he tried medication?

It's a bit sad to hear that a fee-paying school (with, presumably, smaller classes, etc.) was unable to make appropriate accommodations.

Maybe they can just sense your racism.

I hear you @tellmesomethingtrue

I work in a primary with year 6. Quite frankly, I feel those children who are persistently disruptive in class should be removed and their parents informed how they are affecting others from learning. It’s one thing to disengage from your own learning but something else entirely when you disrupt the teaching for others who want to engage.

I also think the only way for some parents to actually take on how serious their child’s behaviour is, is to inconvenience them by having them sit in isolation with their child. Only then do I think some parents would actually listen, sit up and take notice. And if the parents didn’t like that, then quite frankly take your child and sod off elsewhere. The world owes you nothing and schools shouldn’t have to keep accepting it and swallowing it. Parents need to take responsibility for their child’s behaviour.

However, the recent govt announcement that exclusions should now be set at school just further undermines parental responsibility. It should not be down to schools to solve the issues.

I’ve had a shit day - the entitled behaviour of some children (and their parents) is beyond belief.

50% of parents would be ashamed of their child and discipline them, 50% couldn’t care less and only try to discipline their child when it’s too late. I was a teacher, but changed careers partly due to stress caused by unpleasant behaviour (I was menopausal and less willing and able to cope than before.) A TA I worked with would regularly take calls from her son’s school, complaining about his behaviour; her response was, “It’s not my responsibility when he’s in school. He behaves well for me at home.” Some parents don’t feel that their parental role is 24/7 for a minimum of 18 years.

schools are sounding like worse and worse places to be. The OP should be able to enjoy a safe work environment as should the students in her class who want to learn. It is really worrying how awful behaviour can be. I have no idea how you fix it when some kids and parents literally don’t give a shit.

Even at an outstanding primary, I’ve seen behaviour that appalled me. I made the point to the Head that my child was having to put up with behaviour that would be considered assault and gross misconduct in the world of work but because she was a child she had less protection than I did as adult employee.

Yeah, it's frustrating. State schools have been amazing in comparison to be fair.
We have been round the houses to get where we are. Started in private nursery, was told we needed assesssments and they would not support him through school if he got a diagnosis so moved to a state primary. We moved countries in year 3 and then the international school said he needed a 1 on 1 teacher at double the fees. Came back to the uk and went back to state for year 5 and 6. applied for a sporty active private secondary but was told after two trial days and a promise of a place that they wont take him there either.
So we moved house to be near the state secondary that had the best support we could find.
And it's exhausting, but hes doing ok
I think the term is sen betweener, where they struggle with mainstream but arent deemed severe enough for funding or specialist schools.

Agreed. Those threads are full of why pay £x? If your child is bright enough they will achieve top grades anyway.
We are absolutely paying to avoid this kind of behaviour. I went to a sink comp and endured this for five long, difficult years. I was pretty much a straight A student so my grades didn't suffer (much - see below) but I would not put a child of mine through that even if it resulted in a million pound saving for me. Supply teachers - or relatively junior ones - were frequently in tears/walking out/not coming back. In fact my only 'B' grade was in a subject where the teacher was on mat leave and we had a succession of covers for the whole of year 11 - the final one only discovering we'd never learnt future tense a week before the exam (god knows what else we hadn't covered). There were 30 kids in that class and only about 5 of us had any interest whatsoever in even passing the GCSE, let alone get a top grade.

OP, you have my sympathy. Too many kids are so disrespectful, rude, aggressive or worse.

I couldn’t do it. I’m an ex teacher (25 years) and also did a stint during that time on supply and hated it. I’ve got teen children of my own and my daughter is getting really frustrated at school because of the behaviour of the minority of children towards supply teachers. She’s chosen to do a food technology option this term (y9 and they try out options for a term at a time) and so many of the class a dangerously disrespectful that they have had practical food sessions cancelled. She complains she’s learning nothing because of these other children. I’ve heard similar stories from my older child now on sixth form but from when she was pre sixth form.

Then I’m on the parent fb group and you get parents posting ‘does anyone else shave a child constantly being told off and getting g detention for silly little things?’ Erm, no because my child isn’t a little s**t. But she has told me what goes on!!

Op I have my third and final dc in secondary school upper years now and if I had an email from a teacher to say this was happening I would be reading them the riot act.
Which is why you are highly unlikely to get an email about your child's behaviour, they know that you would be supportive of the teacher. Sadly, too many parents couldn't give a damn.

Back in the '60s my brother was late home from school.
Dad Why are you late home
Brother I was in detention
Dad What did you do to get detention?
Brother Nowt!
Dad What should you have been doing then?
A supportive parent my Dad!

If this was my child behaving like this I would absolutely want to know. If informing the parents is something you are allowed to do, I would do it.

100%