Non-quiche for people working in HR, what do you all reckon?

[flowerybeanbag]

Anyone fancy bit of a whinge support group?

I know - it really is a pain working in HR sometimes as I'd be able to be more unreasonable if I didn't IYSWIM. Which is also why I think I can answer my own request for p/t.

Anyway on happier things we had a house viewing and an offer may be made. I may join you in consulting then flowery.

They are quite a good employer, hence reason he has stayed there - not lawyers (or money would not be an issue!).

I know - it really is a pain working in HR sometimes as I'd be able to be more unreasonable if I didn't IYSWIM. Which is also why I think I can answer my own request for p/t.

Anyway on happier things we had a house viewing and an offer may be made. I may join you in consulting then flowery.

They are quite a good employer, hence reason he has stayed there - not lawyers (or money would not be an issue!).

Flowery (and other HR bods!) I hope you don't mind but I would welcome your advice on my education dilemma.

As mentioned before it has always been my aim to go freelance as an HR Consultant, my problem is I am not fully CIPD qualified and was considering applying to study the MA which gives full CIPD accrediation. I am now veering towards the CIPD advanced certificate in Employment Law (employment law is my area of expertise). The advanced employment law certificate does not give CIPD accrediation but it is far less intensive than the MA, which would give me an opportunity to get stuck in with work. If I do the MA I can see it being another few years before I will be able to concentrate fully on work.

I would like to find an interim job for around 12 months to get back into it and go freelance after that. I would be marketing myself towards small companies with no HR team. I am thinking that a small business would be just as happy to use the services of someone with a specialist CIPD qualification even if I don't hold full membership of the CIPD, are small businesses that interested in the ins and outs of the CIPD anyway? What do you think? Is it worth pursuing?

TIA

Oh, I have had a name change!

Reethi is that you?

If you are not 'fully' qualified does that mean you are part qualified? If so why not do the second part? You don't need to do an MA to get it - find one that doesn't involve an MA and a huge dissertation and just get it done imo.

Small businesses may not be interested in the ins and outs of different courses offered by the CIPD, but if someone can say they are a 'qualified' person, whether it's their accountant or their HR consultant or anyone, that's going to resonate. They don't need to know the ins and outs of the course to understand and like the sound of 'qualified', plus the letters after your name.

Secondly, if you are hoping to work for lots of different businesses I'd say the CIPD course is invaluable as it gives you a broad knowledge of so many different areas that it would be almost impossible to gain in the workplace unless you had a long career with more variety than most achieve. As a result of my studying I know all about (and how to implement) loads of different reward schemes, for example, many of which I've never used or worked with. Same applies to recruitment methods. I learned about unions, I learned plenty of general business management, I learned lots of organisational and individual behaviour theories. Loads of stuff that I find useful myself, not just about impressing employers. It's a good grounding, you can't argue with that. Less important if you are always going to work in one type of industry or sector and can learn as you go, but if you want to work more broadly, it may well come into it's own. I think it's impossible to tick that many boxes of knowledge purely in the workplace.

Second comment is if employment law is your area of expertise already why would you need to do a course in it? I would consider my knowledge of employment law to be extensive but I've never done a course in it and would consider it a waste of time tbh. If you know your stuff and know where to look to get confirmation and more detail, I don't think you need a course.

So the HR market is buoyant? Not oop Norf, it's not!!!

Hi ladies.

How you doing mate?

I'm fine, ta. Really disheartened (same old, same old) with the part time market. Or complete lack, thereof.

And apart from that old chestnut, really wondering why I chose HR as a career. Which I think may have more to do with my current role than anything else, but dh is the same. No matter where you go, its same s*t, different day.

Oh, what a bundle of joy I am today!!!

Um. Same s*t different day would probably apply to most careers? Does that help?

New job will mean slightly different s*t?

Remind me how part time you need? Is it a case of applying for f/t jobs, wowing interviewers then exploring p/t options?

Aw thanks flowery. You know, just sometimes, you have a period where you feel like people just moan at you all the time, and you spend all day saying things you've been saying for years, like, 'yes, but have you done an investigation?'.

I'm in agreement with you - have applied for two f/t roles today in the hope that I can impress them with me extraordinary competence and quick wit at interview. Failing that, will just need to keep looking at interim until (hopefully) one goes permanent.

4 days ideally.

Well 4 days is pretty good, def apply for f/t and impress I reckon, it's not like you want 2 days or something. Compressed hours, bit of working from home, all sorts of options if it's 4 days you want.

Thanks Flowery. I have just spent ages tying a long post but I have lost it!

In a nutshell, I know you are right I just feel jinked towards the CIPD qualification, the MA is essentially the same format but appeals to me because it seems like a fresh start rather than having to go over something I have already done. The Advanced Certificate in Employment Law appeals because I know I can pass it without too much stress involved.

Yes, I was Reethi but I wanted a more positive sounding name!

New name is definitely positive sounding

I think you need to reflect on why you want to study, what you want to get out of it. If you want it to appeal to potential clients, there seems little point going to the trouble of studying if it's not going to give you the ability to call yourself 'qualified' and bung some letters after your name tbh.

If it's for your own interest and personal development, the MA would seem the best option, plus it ticks the practical business-benefit boxes as well.

I can't see the attraction of the employment law one. If you are studying to make yourself more marketable I don't think that will achieve it and if you are studying for your own personal development and to challenge yourself, that's not going to do that either if you can pass it 'without stress.'

What is it that is really putting you off getting your CIPD done? If you feel it's going over stuff you've already done, yes that will apply for some of it at least, (and does for most people), but you will still learn something. Also, if that's the problem, why would you consider the employment law course? In your position that would surely involve the same problem?

Is it that you feel it is beyond you, and will be full of people starting out? Probably true, depending on how you do it, but if that's the reason it's cutting off your nose to spite your face a little isn't it?

I forget how senior/experienced you are, is professional assessment an option rather than study to get yourself qualified?

I do know someone who did the employment law one but that was on top of an MA in HR. They did it because they love EL/ER and were in a specialist role.

One gap in market is ER specialists and I am sure that you could get pt contract roles doing that?

Ruth I'm interested did your friend find the employment law course useful and added value?

It was a few years ago but she did - loved it in fact. However, like all law you have to keep on top of it and she left work a few years ago so apart from the academic qual and the interest it is not really valid now.

It does provide you with different ways to look at issues though and she does think differently as a result - whereas I come at ER from a commercial/personal basis she looked at it from a changing law perspective.

I am not sure it changed how she handled cases though as we always agreed on that.

Yeah! I just found an advertisment for a part time HR Manager role. I'm feverishly applying for it now. Send me "interview this candidate vibes" please.

I did this and found it to be interesting but not entirely useful career-wise. OK, it might look good on the CV but it hasn't given me anymore tools for my kitbag at work. The course itself is well-established, challenging and great for networking.

I'd recommend it if you fancy an academic challenge.

Thanks for advice everyone.

Flowery, I think I am worried that the CIPD is beyond me . Academically I struggle with theoretical subjects, A level History and Law - no problem but when it comes to subjects like Psychology and Sociology I flounder!

llareggub, that course does look very interesting. My ex boss did the LLM in Employment Law and loved it. He actually encouraged me to apply for it a few years ago. The problem is although I can talk the talk at work when it comes to academia I am a gibbering wreck! I have actually given myself a long term goal of obtaining the LLM but I don't want to run before I can walk. I think it may be too big an academic challenge than I am ready for at the moment.

I am annoyed by myself really because when I was at work I wrote reports on a regular basis that could easily have been tweaked to provide a basis for management reports/assignments. I just seem to go into panic mode when it comes to including theory in the reports.

Lots to think about for now. Thanks again!

Forever have you talked to many people who have done the CIPD? I wouldn't say it's hugely academic tbh and you don't need a fantastic set of results to pass, plus a lot of the subject matter would obviously be familiar to you. I would certainly say if that's your concern don't bother with an MA, just do a basic course.

The way I look at it when it comes to anything in life I'm a bit worried about is; if all these other people who have done xxx (whatever it is) can do it, I'm damn sure I can. I think childbirth was the last thing I had to think that for...

Forever - I did my CIPD right at the start of my career, without a great deal of experience, you'll be fine, honestly.

RuthT - now I need to see the same jobs you are looking at. I used to be an ER Manager prior to my current role and haven't seen any specialist roles advertised.

Maybe I need to relocate.

I'd agree with what the others have said about CIPD. I also did it at the start of my career: in fact when I started it I had no idea what a disciplinary or a grievance might be!

I think it depends on whether you'd go contract first. We have seen a rise in ER issues and so have friends in other businesses. You also normally see more ER issues when companies make people redudant - need I say more? It seems to be a trend to get someone in to look after all the ER issues. You could offer your services to do this? Mind you I am in the SW - may not be the same everywhere.

Ruth - am in the NW - heavily, heavily unionised up here, so not a lot of call for ER specialists, more 'people that have experience of fighting with unions'.

I would love to go contract first Ruth. Ds starts school in January and I would ideally like to start on a fixed term contract then, I am actively ttc no 2 at the moment so don't really want to apply for permanent jobs.

I have seen a rise in the number of jobs advertised dealing specifically with redundancies. I have lots of experience dealing with mass scale redundancies so I am hoping that this will stand me in good stead.