Nuerodiverse colleague

[moana35]

I am having a few problems with a colleague at work. She is neurodiverse so adjustments have had to be made but these adjustments are meaning that myself and my colleagues are doing alot more than we did before she was employed.

She is very black and white about time so she will not be at her desk until her digital smart watch says the start time on her contract and again she leaves at the exact time she is supposed to finish even if in the middle of something. Lunch is an hour but due to needing to re compress for the afternoon she needs to take 75 minutes as she needs to go for a walk and eat. She has to sit in front of a window which means all our places in the office have been changed.

From Monday we are not allowed to drink coffee at our desks anymore only tea as the smell makes her gag.

Aside from this she is a very good worker and gets her work done to a good standard but it is impacting on the morale of the team. She is also exempt from training mornings if they are "small room " based as she can't sit in a room with a big group of people. She will be allowed to do her training online.

Management say as she declared her nuerodiversity at interview these adjustments have to be made for her I get reasonable adjustments and I have an autistic son but are these adjustments reasonable to the rest of the team.

If we took 15 mins extra for lunch or asked our colleague to not drink coffee I am sure we would be spoken to by management,

Has anyone else come across this in the workplace.

I attach the screenshot of the part of the article that literally says "ARFID".

The big problem with ARFID is that it can cause chronic malnutrition. ARFID sufferers are usually underweight.

The term "anorexia" on its own is a clinical term to mean not eating. "Anorexia nervosa" is the well-known pathological refusal to eat because of concerns about weight gain or female puberty. Other forms of clinically-relevant not eating exist and are all termed anorexia.

ND here don't give the people around them the same grace and understanding they expect to receive.

The utter hypocrisy of you saying this.

There is a real theme that ND or any disability is THE struggle

This straw man again. No one is saying that other people don't have difficulties in life.

and everyone else has an advantage.

You do have an advantage: you aren't disabled.

A disability is something that disadvantages someone compared to non-disabled people. Literally, by legal definition. If you are not disabled, you have an advantage over people who are, by definition. The clue is the word "adverse" in the Equality Act definition below.

Disability

(1) A person (P) has a disability if—

(a) P has a physical or mental impairment, and

(b) the impairment has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on P's ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities.

I think help should be given to neurodivergent people in the form of coping strategies, not demands on others.

1. Some of us get to the point where the coping strategies aren't enough. When the lights at work trigger migraines, there's no "coping strategy" to alleviate that. The only prevention is to change the lighting.
2. Some of us weren't diagnosed as children and so weren't given coping strategies, so don't have them or have less-effective ones that we guessed at ourselves.
3. Sometimes, a coping strategy requires a demand on others. An example would be a musician being allowed to wear a hat or visor on stage when normally the concert dress doesn't allow that, or wearing sunglasses, which a lot of conductors really hate because they can't make eye contact with the musician.
4. We wouldn't treat people with visible disabilities this way. The coping strategy for a wheelchair user in a multi-floor building looks like a lift, which means a demand that lifts be designed into new buildings and added to older buildings where possible. We wouldn't expect a wheelchair user to forgo the reasonable adjustment of a lift in a new building just because the architect forgot to add a lift to the design. Why are hidden disabilities fair game for this kind of ableism?

Having read about true starvation ( as in Gaza), I don’t believe anyone could self impose this.

They do, and it's a medically-recognised disorder. Your ignorance doesn't make it less real. Did you read a PP's link to a news report of a non-verbal autistic 7yo boy who died of ARFID?

I read the post here where someone upped the anti about the nd woman who doesn’t like the smell of coffee by linking it with the clearly emotive subject of ARFID.
I don’t think such things have much relevance to the current discussion.
I do, however, understand the insinuation that if the nt office workers don’t respect their colleague’s aversion to the dmell of coffee, she could potentially die.
Personally, I’m sceptical, cos, as I said, I’ve always had these aversions myself, often intense, but have found a way to cope, as I had no alternative. I’m still here to tell the tale.

@selffellatingouroborosofhate thank you for your posts. You have said it all better than I could.

That was me. I was using ARFID as an example of how serious sensory problems can be for an autistic person.

I do, however, understand the insinuation that if the nt office workers don’t respect their colleague’s aversion to the dmell of coffee, she could potentially die.

That's not what I said, and I really hate when people accuse me of saying or implying things that I didn't say.

The coffee-averse woman won't die, if only because fatal self-suffocation without using something (e.g. a ligature) to prevent yourself from starting to breathe again when you pass out is biologically impossible, but she might throw up, get a migraine, faint from trying to hold her breath, or have to leave the office completely.

Personally, I’m sceptical, cos, as I said, I’ve always had these aversions myself, often intense, but have found a way to cope, as I had no alternative. I’m still here to tell the tale.

You are one person. Not everyone is like you, and some people are affected worse than you. "It doesn't happen to me, therefore it doesn't exist" is not a valid argument. It would be like me claiming that PCOS doesn't exist because I don't have it myself, or claiming that women who faint from the pain of menstrual cramps are being drama queens because my cramps are only bad enough to briefly stop me from speaking.

The coffee-averse woman won't die, but she might throw up, get a migraine, faint from trying to hold her breath, or have to leave the office completely.

And if I don’t have coffee at my desk I won’t be able to concentrate, focus or use it as a managing tool to deal with my own issues in the office,

I can’t believe how many people are tying themselves in knots to justify that a ban on coffee is reasonable.

If the sensitivities to a very, very common scent is such that she is going to have this extreme reaction then the adjustment needs to be that she works from home, or in a private space.

Just because someone is ND doesn’t mean they’re automatically entitled to everything they ask for.

Somewhat off-topic but a friend’s son (13) is diagnosed with ARFID, it’s a serious eating disorder. He’s also autistic and has some sensory issues.

He can only eat certain foods but they take the approach that no one else in the family needs to modify their diets. If his siblings wish to eat or drink something that he can’t, they do. He doesn’t have life-threatening allergies to the foods he can’t eat, he just can’t eat them.

Personally, I think that’s a wise approach as learning to coexist with other people who don’t have food restrictions, beginning in your safe family environment, will ultimately make his life easier. It would be awful if, for example, he can’t socialize in cafes, pubs, restaurants, etc. when he’s older, due to his condition.

Of course, he’s been diagnosed young (I believe he was 10) so he has time to learn how to manage it before he has to deal with the adult world. People who are diagnosed later don’t have this.

I cannot speak for others, but if you read my posts on this thread, you'll see that I acknowledge that the coffee ban may be unreasonable, because it does adversely impact the rest of the office.

I would suggest mandatory lidded cups, because they protect the staff and furnishings against spills as well as keeping the odour down. I speak as someone who once had to send an apology and request for a spot clean of the office carpet to our Estates department because I tilted my open-topped coffee cup whilst carrying it back to my desk and some of the contents poured out.

How about acknowledging that these things just happen and are human. Next there will be a proposal to wear house slippers in the office so the carpets don't get dirty.

I agree with this, a compromise can be found here and it is up to management to implement it. She could maybe have a fan pointing away from her desk if that works for her.

She is a hard worker so it sounds like she is doing the same amount of work as you all but in a quicker time, 15 extra of answering the phone isn’t a big deal. I can’t stand the smell of tea to the extent it make me heave and worse if it has sugar in it, but wouldn’t expect others not to drink it but just not having teabags hanging around the place.
Is your issue the fact that you know she is getting more done than you are she blocks everything out and just gets on with the job?

Sorry, I just don't agree with you.
For all I know, I'm ND myself, perhaps ASD.
My point is that sensitivity to a coffee smell is not liking a certain smell. Yes, it can make you feel bad, but we all have to face challenges in life.
Think of some of the really big challenges some people have to face, like dying through starvation in war, natural disaster, bereavement etcetera. Sensitivity to coffee isn't really up there.
People just need to get a grip and take responsibility for themselves and their frailties.

Ha, ha, @Perimenoanti, I actually wouldn’t mind wearing slippers in the office.

Im self-employed nowadays so I do sometimes wear flip flops when no one else is around. 😂

Apparently if you have been through war, starvation, anything really, you still have an advantage as a NT person.

ND here paint a world of NT that is not reality. The comments above about receiving treatment for trauma, for example, show this. Removed from reality and absolutely contrary to my experience.

There even is a school of thought that some NT get misdiagnosed as ND as they have trauma or a personality disorder that can present in almost the exact same way. I can well believe this as I think our understanding of these is still evolving and the NHS really isn't equipped to deal with everyone. It took me 10 years to get to the bottom of what might be wrong with me. I didn't know for 25 years that I had been abused. And no, the NHS hasn't offered me appropriate care. It was the most ridiculous suggestion made above.

Anyway I have found my peace. I find it easier to not dwell on what happened to me and how unfair it all is that what my abusers did is not even illegal and that I didn't get the chance to live a normal life. I realised there is no normal life. We think others live a normal life and have it better but I just try to see people as humans and try to remind myself that I have no idea what might be going on with someone regardless of how it looks. I try not to label. I'm really proud of myself how I managed to move out of the victim role I liked to be in even a couple of years ago and take charge of my life.

I just meant that you seemed to be differentiating between ARFID and malnourishment, when AFRID can lead to malnourishment.

Being food averse could also lead to restricted eating. Ergo, anorexia.

Seemed an odd difference to make.

Apparently if you have been through war, starvation, anything really, you still have an advantage as a NT person.

Yes, you do have an advantage over ND people if you are NT, on one axis of disadvantage. Disadvantage comes in multiple axes and someone can be disadvantaged on some axes and advantaged on another. I am white, so in terms of race I am advantaged compared to a Black person. I am a woman, so in terms of sex I am disadvantaged compared to a man.

Even within the Equality Act protected characteristic of disability, someone can be advantaged in some ways and disadvantaged in others. I have a mobility advantage compared to someone in a wheelchair, even though they have a social skills advantage compared to me.

This is not hard to understand and I am sick of you misrepresenting my stance.

There even is a school of thought that some NT get misdiagnosed as ND as they have trauma or a personality disorder that can present in almost the exact same way.

The statistics indicate that the reverse is far more common. I was misdiagnosed with BPD, and wasted years on the wrong treatment for.

And no, the NHS hasn't offered me appropriate care.

You wrote upthread that you were able to pay for appropriate care. It was easier for you to do that than it is for me, because many private counsellors refuse to treat autistic people.

It took me 10 years to get to the bottom of what might be wrong with me.

I was in my forties when I was diagnosed, attempted suicide at 15. I see your 10 years and raise you 30 years.

With respect, this is silly. No one here is comparing going through war, famine or any other human tragedy to being ND. It is not comparable.

I'm sorry that you have been through trauma, genuinely. Anyone that has suffered such awful things deserves compassion and any treatment that they need. I know how hard this is to access on the NHS. I have spent too many years on this, trauma included.

I have many times alluded to human experience in this thread. I hope you can heal from whatever is it that that has caused you such suffering. Realise here that we are all just trying to live our lives in the way that works to make everything a little easier. Others getting accommodations is not an attack on you. The disabled are not the enemy.

Also in my 40s when I was able to access appropriate care. I stand with you.

I will never understand the need to punch down and it is so sad the way the world seems to be heading.

It's a good job the women before us fighting for our rights didn't give up.

People just need to get a grip and take responsibility for themselves and their frailties.

The ND colleague did take responsibility, by disclosing an impairment and asking for an adjustment to accommodate the impairment. It's not like stopping breathing is an option. The adjustment offered is probably unreasonable, but that's the fault of the employer for granting the adjustment in that form, not the employee for asking.

To use an analogy, if you are lost in an unfamilar town, asking someone else for directions is a legitimate way of taking responsibilty for finding your way again. "Taking responsibilty" can look like asking for help.

Remember that we are not privy to what the ND colleague actually said to Occy Health. Posters have assumed without evidence that she demanded that her co-workers be banned from drinking coffee at their desks. And yes, you have accused her of that with your talk of her dictating to people what they can drink and similar statements littering this thread.

It's more likely that she said something like "the smell of coffee makes me throw up / have a headache / other adverse effect, so I need to work somewhere that doesn't have that smell". That the boss has responded by banning everyone from drinking coffee at their desks is on him, not her.

I was in my 40s too when I finally received the treatment that helped me. I had a few failed attempts even once I had an inkling of what might be wrong with me. As you say, it's not a race to the bottom. I prefer to see people as just humans that come with different baggage. It helps me to see myself like that. That I'm not special at all and people don't spend much time thinking about me. Changing my perspective has helped me hugely. I used to fight for justice and being seen but that kept me stuck and angry. But I realised I can give much of this to myself and it takes the power away from others and the world. They don't have to understand me.

And yet people shout for disabled people to come off benefits and this is the level of intolerance in the workplace

Ok, great. This is quite different from some of your previous posts though? I did call you an idiot and on reflection, I'm sorry about that. I said it in anger and it was not helpful.

But your general tone has been quite disparaging of people like me, and the lady referenced in the OP, as evidenced by all the deleted posts. I'm just trying to live my life in a way that works for me and I try very hard not to piss other people off. Unfortunately, I often find others don't extend the same courtesy.

The many other ND posters on this thread have shared their stories with honesty and humility. Please, everyone, try to empathise. We are not the enemy.

I prefer to see people as just humans that come with different baggage.

Recognising that someone can be disadvantaged in some ways and advantaged in others is how I conceptualise what you have just said. At work, there are legal obligations relating to the Equality Act that complicate this approach because nine "protected characteristics" must be considered by employers, whilst other factors that can cause profound disadvantage (e.g. poverty) do not.

In respect of your specific situation, PTSD of sufficient severity can constitute a disability and it's not wrong or weak to ask for reasonable adjustments or other help.

This is absolutely ridiculous. I have neurodivergent people on my team, I hired them but what I’ve done is I’ve extended the same adjustments to everyone.

in my particular case, is said person was to be in the office they needed to wear headphones at the desk to avoid her stimulation, so now my whole team can wear headphones if they need to. Bright office lights were a problem so we agreeed as a team a suitable level for lighting.

this person also doesn’t do well not knowing ahead of time what’s expected so now all meetings have agendas and I do that with everyone. If she’s having a bad day where she can’t put her camera on then we’ll all switch our cameras off on team calls.

adjustments have to work for everyone, even neurodivergent people need to adjust as that’s the reality of life. They can’t always get what they want, just like neurotypical people can’t always get what they want. We do our best to accommodate but sometimes we just can’t accommodate as we can’t disrupt the majority for one person’s convenience.