Leaving the civil service…

[FortyDegreeDay]

Hi mumsnet 👋

I need some advice! I’m a Grade 7 in the civil service. I’ve been a Grade 7 for just over two years having completed the fast stream and I’m feeling disillusioned with the civil service. Our team is chronically under resourced, there is very minimal intellectual stretch and the individual who I report to is not particularly capable at their role and is frequently away from the desk doing other things and logs onto meetings whilst sitting horizontally on the sofa. In short, I’m not developing or learning in my current role and I feel I’m not getting sufficient examples and exposure to be able to secure a promotion or a lateral move.

I’m in a project delivery profession, where we frequently we don’t have the capability within the civil service so keep outsourcing the exciting work to consultancies and in the past four years I’ve ran 8 + tenders for consultancies to complete project design and target operating model work. I am also regionally based and it feels as though all the buzz of working in the civil service is felt predominately by staff who work in proximity to Whitehall. I am the only staff member based in my region and I like going into the office and working with others, there’s no bouncing ideas around of others. I’ve never met my team in person despite being in this role for over a year.

I have been offered a a new role in Project Management consultancy at KPMG. The move would be lateral, as the base salary and bonus is slightly higher than my current base salary in the civil service but I will get 5 less days annual leave and the pension contributions are lower. I feel more excited by the opportunity to work on different projects and for a Big 4 organisation but I speak to mentors and they suggest I’m crazy to leave the civil service at the moment due to the uncertain economic climate and the security of a civil service role. I am 30 and don’t have children and I probably don’t maximise the full benefits of the civil service - for example, flexible working, etc.

I am from a socially mobile background so when I speak to friends and family they think I should be grateful for having a relatively well paid role (I am!) and don’t know why I am so unhappy so I’m finding it hard to access any advice and guidance.

I would love to hear some feedback from others who have moved from the Big 4 to the Civil Service or vice versa. I’d love any career thoughts or advice!

You’re in a very unusual set up where you are and doubtless wojld have a more positive experience if you worked in closer proximity to others, had a better boss etc. You can move within the CS, if you want to.

Having said that, my biggest regret is not getting out sooner. I made it to DD, and was fucking miserable, and had been for ages.

Of course the Outside seems less secure, but redundancies happen in the civil service too.

I went to the charity sector so can’t comment on the exact move you want to make but it sounds like a really good opportunity.

You’re in a very unusual set up where you are and doubtless wojld have a more positive experience if you worked in closer proximity to others, had a better boss etc. You can move within the CS, if you want to.

Having said that, my biggest regret is not getting out sooner. I made it to DD, and was fucking miserable, and had been for ages.

Of course the Outside seems less secure, but redundancies happen in the civil service too.

I went to the charity sector so can’t comment on the exact move you want to make but it sounds like a really good opportunity.

It seems as though the only thing keeping you in the CS is the pension and job security. You are young with no children so maybe this is the time to make a move you may not get this opportunity again. Go somewhere you will learn and develop.

I'm a former civil servant. I'd go for it if I were you, you're too young to stay in a job for a pension and it sounds like a great opportunity

Sorry to hear your frustrations OP. I joined the CS fairly ever fly (also within a project delivery team) and I love it. There are so many opportunities available within the CS that I'm surprised you can't find anything you want to apply for, either as an EOI within your Dept or in another Dept. Are you signed up to Civil Service Jobs, for the "internal to government" ones?

I know how you feel about the office issues and lack of contact with colleagues but I've made it work for me by signing up to various networks and interest groups. I love the opportunities for L&D and things like PO cover - what anything like that interest you, for a change of scene and some networking?

I hear that but I’ve worked in a few departments and had similar experiences - sometimes they recruit for a role but there isn’t really a full time role to do - they just want a bum on seat!

A couple of my old G6s are now DDs and have approached me for roles in their team (at both G7 and promotion to G6) but it’s always caveated by ‘we’re not sure what the long term future looks like but we need someone to cover all bases’ (essentially hiring a more senior role to do the role of a couple of HEO or SEOs) or ‘you’re managing an underperforming team’. I approached someone in my department about a lateral move and was met with ‘well the person in the role wants to go part time so we’re scoping what this other person could pick up’ (i.e you can pick up the bits they don’t want).

My department has recruitment cooling and a voluntary exit scheme so it’s severely restricting opportunities at the moment.

What made you miserable in the CS? I’d love to know more about your career journey!

I am based in Birmingham and it feels like there should be more civil service coverage than there is but there are truly not a tonne of departments to pick from compared to colleagues based up North.

I hear you - but I might want children in the distant future (i.e four years time) and I don’t want to walk into a situation that might not be family friendly. That being said, I am the higher earner out of me and my partner and I think they’d relish being more hands on than me!

What department are you in? My department has recruitment cooling restrictions in place at the moment alongside launching a voluntary exit scheme. I’m not being allowed to apply for lateral EOI moves as I am pivotal to the success of my team so my only real hope is to go for a full recruitment campaign but I’ve not seen a tonne that takes my fancy.

My office is really small - and there’s not a lot going on here. I run a lot of the social events but a lot of the staff are younger and junior compared to me, our office is a newish location for our department so a lot of the staff are new recruits, new to the workplace etc. The social atmosphere is fine more broadly but I just miss the feeling of collaboration on actual work and not sitting on teams calls all day.

Either take the opportunity and leave now before you get too used to the culture or look to move to another department. I am also bham based and nearly all my team are in London. Its a project that works very closely with the perm sec and SoS but I do feel really involved. We are encouraged to go to London and managers are expected to visit their regional staff. There are so many departments, it's worth taking a look around and making a sideways move.

I assume you are in your twenties if you are a fast stream? The flexibility and higher annual leave is invaluable if you have a family. But you can always re-enter in the future.

I left the fast stream in 2023 and I am 30 now. Do you mind sharing what department you work for? I am still scouring jobs on CS jobs but it’s so deficient of opportunities right now. I’m definitely set on staying in the project delivery profession.

Although reading your update, I can see why you are struggling. I don't get involved inany of our office social things but I need to get home to the kids! I go into the office to work and although it would be nice to have more colleagues to chat with, it's fine for me. But I understand what you mean about collaborative working with your team.

I’m a civil servant and I think going to KPMG would be a fantastic opportunity, they would have family friendly/ flexible working polices as such a big international company, a quick google reveals their parental leave policy and states flexible working parents. There are great opportunities to go a different country to work too and return back to your role. A friend of mine who is an accountant got to do three months in Texas. In my profession, the big four don’t really offer consultancy work but I am very interested in potentially become a consultant in a firm specifically for my profession and doing something a bit different.

I left after 5 years to work in the charity sector and never regretted it.

I am desnz but fairly new to it. Since covid the cs has a lot more remote working. It does have downsides (such as you are experiencing) but it's also moved a lot of roles that were just Whitehall based out across the country.

If you plan to have children in the next few years I would stay put - there will be at least 5-10 years where you will eat off your own arm for things like annualised hours, home working etc. I’m in a much worse paid role than I could be because as two FT working parents to young children flexibility counts for a LOT.

I am also DESNZ so maybe our paths have crossed - would love to know what project area you’re working on/in!

I worked in the CS prior to Covid and it seemed like there was more effort to group people together, for example at DWP and DFE my team was split across two sites rather than hiring individuals across multiple locations. It’s swings and roundabouts I suppose!

I’ve been in DESNZ. Try HMRC - much bigger and a lot of transformation work going on. You’ve got DWP and OPG in Birmingham so a fair few options. Home Office in Solihull

Did you take a pay cut for the charity sector? I would be open to this move but I have a mortgage with an 5% interest rate and can’t afford to take too much of a salary hit!

Your earning potential at KPMG/ private sector will be much better and it sounds like you fancy it but are nervous about security? You can always go back to the civil service in future.

I can’t stress enough that I would not leave for KPMG. They pay well but not enough for what they want in return, they demand a lot from you, huge amounts of time and hours especially during busy periods- 12 hour days not uncommon, there’s really not much in the way of work/life balance and if you try to be strict about that you’ll be swiftly back out the door- easy to do for a new member of staff too.

If you want children KPMG isn’t for you, in my own opinion obviously but have a look yourself at reviews of staff who work there.

I did take a pay cut yes. I was single with a mortgage so I got a lodger for a year then just had a more modest lifestyle when my salary went up. It was worth it for me because I loved all my jobs from that point on.

I am currently a civil servant.
In the past I have worked for KPMG and Grant Thornton. Both extremely toxic environments. Especially KPMG.
I have seen quite a a few threads on here from people in the Big 4 desparate to leave as it’s so toxic.
I would think hard before leaving the civil service. Much more flexible and family friendly than the big private sector firms.

But can you elaborate on what made the environments toxic? I see this a lot but I find the civil service environment to be quite toxic but this could just be my immediate team!

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