Tell me your Big 4 experience. Being pushed

[Beingpushed]

I have been working for a few years in a Manager role in a big 4. My team has recently moved to another team which seem quite business oriented, only interested in people who want to work all hours/make partner. I feel like I am now being pushed out and the partner is making things up/exaggerating things and I am not being given enough work to keep utilisation up.

Should I leave or don’t go down without a fight? I joined in a very tricky time where they were struggling to recruit and I was thrown into the deep end with not much support.

I feel like I served the purpose, it is a different market and they just want young people who want to progress the career; they are not struggling to recruit anymore. They are also not interested in people who prioritise their family despite all what they say. They want people who want to give all to grow the business.

I’m ex Big4 and I don’t think your experience is uncommon. If the writing is on the wall you could consider raising a grievance with a view to seeing whether they would give you a settlement (as opposed to the performance management route), but it’s unlikely to be generous. I’d probably advise you to see what else is out there so you’re in a better position to jump before things get worse. Sorry you’re going through this.

I’m Big4 but wouldn’t see that in my team (not audit or consulting).

But I’d just go - given how hard we’re finding it to recruit at the moment it must be a candidate’s market and so I’d just accept it’s not for you and find a job somewhere else rather than go through the stress and heartache of fighting it, and likely losing if they throw their weight behind the case (unless you’ve got clear, objective evidence of wrong doing).

Thank you. I am looking for options; can’t quit without anything else; but if things get worse I am not sure I will put up a fight and go through all the stress.

if the team culture is horrible, you’re unlikely to thrive and would do better elsewhere. Would you consider an internal transfer to a new team or department?

If you’re choosing to prioritise your family, being a Manager in the Big 4 isn’t for you frankly. Find another job. It’s not a career for people who want to take their foot off the gas. I’m not saying that’s right / fair but that’s the nature of the industry.

As ex Big 4 in tax I must admit I thought that was always the way.

Either you use Big 4 as a means to an end to get a leg up into industry, or you're a real go getter constantly looking to progress towards director / partner. I was definitely the former.

I've never come across any who was able to plateau in the Big 4.

I am ex Big 4. It wasn’t for me.

i gritted my teeth, did 4 years for my cv, then got another better paid job off the back of it. They worked me very hard for those 4 years, and paid relatively little. I left without a backwards glance!

Thank you. I appreciate everyone’s opinion. It is my first experience with big 4 and in a client facing role. I come from industry actually and felt I have done really well without much support; but I started late in my career, due to my age I don’t think I will be long enough to progress to Director, let alone Partner.

At the moment is just negative feedback and exaggerating things to make me doubt myself, feel unhappy and quit on my own decision. I imagine it will continue.

I have worked hard, managed some good projects and built up a good network, managed a good portfolio of clients; however I don’t work 14 hours a day, don’t work on the weekends or holidays and I do take all my annual leave plus the additional days we can purchase. This is what I mean by prioritising my family. I do put additional hours and ensure I deliver within deadlines, I have also trained and mentored junior members of the team.

I feel like defending my case here 😂

Yes, looking into other internal opportunities.

I think the team culture on this team is different; it was not like this on the previous team. My immediate team members are nice; but the partners want to grow that part of the business and trying to get rid of people who are not willing to work all hours and help grow the business and their career. They won’t say this of course but it is obvious. I am not the only one being pushed out.

I'm ex Big 4 (from quite a while ago). This sounds pretty typical. I used to come into the office to find people who'd worked through the night and were still expected to work the following day. As a PP said, I saw it as qualification and then a couple of years figuring out what to do next - I was audit but had secondments to management consultancy and training before I left. I think the weeding out of people who don't want to live and breathe work has always been prevalent.

Thank you. It is good to know it is not just me or my perception of things. I am a bit more experienced now, have read more about it so know better what they are trying to do and not to believe or take these things to heart.

I’m not sure you fully understood my point so I’ll try again. You’re a Manager now. Your priorities have changed and you don’t want to kill yourself at work anymore. You do a solid job and have worked hard to get to where you are. But you’re not willing to make the sacrifices for the next step in your new team as it just isn’t what you want (or rather, there’s a price you’re not willing to pay). There’s nothing wrong with that. You don’t have to defend yourself. It’s not criticism. It’s actually pretty normal which is why most people move out of the Big 4 into industry or smaller consultancies once they’ve got some good Big 4 experience on their c.v. You can’t be surprised by this surely? Manager level is often make or break time for people. Do you get out or do you knuckle down and really go for it?

I’m ex-Big 4. Got as far as being UK management team for my global practice. Then realised how normal it had become to ring my Account Head at 11pm on Mon night (and not even question the time - and of course he’d answer) and answer my work phone at 9am on Sunday even though I was away on holiday and the person calling me launched into a resourcing issue without even saying good morning first. I was driving at the time but get so wrapped up in the call that I had to pull over or I would have been completely lost. It sucks you in as everyone around you is doing the same. We live and breathe work. And if you’re not doing it then you’re not moving forward so you’re behind the curve. You either get with the programme or you get out. I chose to leave - and moved into banking, not exactly known for short hours and reasonable demands but an improvement on Big 4 consulting.

It’s perfectly normal to hit this point. I’m surprised you’re surprised.😂

The big 4 have done, and continue to do, a lot of talking a good game on flexibility and diversity and returners to work.
I trained with a big 4 firm and it was a great place to train. And in my office/team there was no competitive long hours culture. Left after qualifying anyway to do something that was a really niche job and great fit for me.

20+ years on I was approached to see if I was interested in a role with another big 4 firm. Spoke to the head of the team, and decided that for all the rhetoric there would actually be no flexibility or understanding of individual needs. So I thanked them and said it wasn't for me (obviously being polite and not saying this). They never even bothered acknowledging that email. That confirmed to me that I'd done the right thing.

I suspect it does depend on the people you work for, but I'd never be surprised by a tale like yours, though disappointed given things have supposedly moved on these days.

It is a strange culture, isn’t it? So much talk but the reality is different. They keep saying they are flexible reg home working but the reality is so different. Why can’t they not be direct/honest?

Anyway, things happen for a reason so even though I did not want to change jobs it looks like I have no choice.

Thanks. I think I have been a bit naive. I started as a Manager/M2; haven’t really had a career there or gone through grades. In other team there were a few people who have ben on same role/below AD 5 plus years

It's not a candidates market in consulting / professional services now. There has been a real slowdown. Which fits with you saying there isnt enough work for you. I suggest looking around at other options but really now is the time to hunker down with the job you have. I don't think they can performance manage you out if they aren't giving you enough work, though they might offer voluntary redundancy which would be a blessing.

I have worked half of my 24 year career in a big 4 firm, for the first 12 years. I'm not surprised to hear that toxic culture like you describe still exists. All the more current escapees from big 4 that I know describe similar bullshit. I think it's fair enough expecting people to work hard, live for the job and prioritise work over family and social life. It goes with the territory. I do think they could cut the mind games and pressuring people out.

As PP have said I agree with all the comments.

I am also ex Big4 and was pushed out early last year. Lack of work , seniors resigning and the whole system being broken.

In fact one of them commented that I should focus on work as much as I focus on my kid. Well unfortunately in sickness my kid (then 2 year old) has an absolutely priority over anything else. I had to take my DC to the hospital and just couldn't complete work ! It spiraled from there.

Your post resonates with me and what I went through.

I guess they are successful for a reason.

I always wonder what drives/motivates these people that live and breath work and are always pursuing career growth above anything else and no matter how many people you have to crush along the way. Is it money? Sense of achievement? Feeling good about themselves?

At risk of hijacking the OP's thread, can I ask how similar/different to the Big 4 the culture is at accountancy firms that are not Big 4, but are still pretty big? I have a personal interest in the question, as DC has a job lined up with an accountancy firm that is big, but not Big 4.

I’m ex Big 4 too, from a very long time ago. I left as a manager. Weirdly, about ten years later they contacted me to do a follow up on culture as they’d been through a lot of voluntary redundancies and were disappointed that a disproportionate number of women had left. They were scratching their heads as to why….😂

Ex big 4 here too. Left as a manager a long time ago. Went back 3 days a week after maternity leave.

Got all my good and interesting clients taken off me and given the boring crap. When I said I just wanted to do a good job at my manager M2 level rather than go to M4 (was on the cusp), I was told that wasn’t how it worked.

I stayed just over the year I needed to to avoid paying back the enhanced maternity pay. After 16 months I was told I was one of the longest part time fee earners.

This was 20 years ago, I really thought it might have changed now when you see the big 4 in family friendly employer league tables but on meeting some current employees recently I realise it hasn’t changed at all.

Good luck OP. I loved the first few years and the buzz but when priorities are not 100% work I don’t think it’s a sustainable environment. I did earn a pretty good wage though 😄

This.

It's a really 'up or out' culture. It doesn't sound like it's the right career for you, OP. You need to lean in and put the hours in if you want to stay in your job and progress. Otherwise you will be pushed out, yes.

Well, whatever it is that motivates them, this kind of dedication is what it takes.

If it's not for you I would just leave. It's a miserable place to be if your heart isn't in it, and the exit opportunities are often better paid jobs, at least in the short-term. Seems like a no brainer to me.

I saw a presentation from KPMG recently which included the stat that their average staff age is 27. That says a lot to me- they recruit a lot of young grads and many of them don't last long- they work the arse off you and then lots of people leave /are burnt out quickly. Ironically this was a talk about workplace wellbeing...as one person you aren't going to change the culture so I'd keep my head down, find another job and then leave TBH.