How long does a very small business need to keep someone signed off employed?

[ohsososo]

I mean very small business. As in one employee. They are signed off due to a car accident. It’s been 6 weeks and there is no sign of them being able to return. I have no experience of running a business. I just employ one person in a role that needs doing.

I can’t afford to pay a short term person to cover as well as pay the signed off person indefinitely.

is there government support I could get? What is SSP? Do I claim something back? Surely if there has to be a point where it’s determined I can let them go.

I’m not some awful person. I’ve already put up with so much. Missed days due to an addiction. Give them paid time off weekly to attend counselling. I’ve been really supportive but it’s become untenable.

its the whole making him redundant whilst he’s signed off thing that concerns me.

I know it can he done. I just need to ensure it is done the correct way.

I will contact Nanny Tax and ACAS and find out the exact situation when it is relating to a domestic situation as I know the rules are slightly different. It is not as arduous a process but I need to find out exactly what the process is. To the letter

The agency we employed him though only cover the first 6 weeks. But we have a service contract with Nanny tax that I forgot includes employment advice. They should be very knowledgable as the majority of their work is domestic employment. Nannies, housekeepers, gardeners etc. Also I can speak with ACAS.

Ok, assuming statutory minimum

The first 3 days of his sick leave are unpaid. After that you have to pay him £118.75 for this he has to provide a sick note. You pay this for 28 weeks and then after that any further sick leave is unpaid.

if you want to get rid you will have to go through a competency/disciplinary process. I would strongly advise getting specialist advice. Following a process is vital or you could end up at an employment tribunal.

Thank you. For domestic situations the rules are different so I will speak with nanny tax to get the details correct.

But it is news to me about SSP being paid straight away. We have always just paid full pay when people have been unwell. Because no one has taken weird amounts of sick leave. It always seemed morally right to just pay full pay when people had the flu or a bad cold etc. didn’t even occur to us to only pay SSP so I just never really looked into it.

For what it’s worth OP, I think you sound like a really decent person who has tried to be as lenient and supportive as possible. I hope you get it sorted (and I’m super envious of you having a garden big enough for a FT gardner! I bet it’s incredible - when it’s being worked on!). Hope you get it sorted.

Thank you. Just exhausted by it all. It’s really upsetting me. Even if we get it ‘sorted’ it’s going to weigh heavily on me. We are very lucky to have the space but I wouldn’t be lying to say I really want to simplify life atm.

Is the garden small enough that you can cover it late summer and over winter?
I would make the role redundant and say you are going to do it yourself / or use contractors for specific seasonal aspects

No it does need all round attention. But winter less than autumn and spring.

you are correct though. We could stop with employing a gardener and instead use a gardening service to mow the lawns, prune the big hedges 3x a year and do shrubs and weeding as the seasons require. There is lots of leaf blowing and general outdoor tidying that is needed on a weekly basis. But this could be done by a gardening service

it’s worked for 20ish years having someone on site as they could fix hinges and small leaks and other random handi man jobs. But tbh it’s not that hard to find a handyman around here.

Who has told you that the rules are different for domestic employees?

I am not an employment solicitor but note You may need to dismiss on capability rather than redundancy if you are moving across to getting another company to do the work there imsy not be a redundancy situation there could be TUPE rights. Get advice on what you can do.

Is he like the diet coke man in the summer but only with a can of freezing cold Stella? 🤔

but if he is agency staff then as far as im aware you dont owe anything other than telling the agency you dont need him etc ?

You can surely reach a settlement with him.
gardener you are no longer able to do the job we employed you to due to x, y and z.

we will pay your legal fees. Please seek independent advice. Here is 4 months pay ( one month for each year you have worked with us, plus a good will amount to cover your current illness for another month ( or whatever you feel is fair).

it’s a settlement rather than a redundancy. You would be fine to do this.
I would seek legal advice though

Speak to your payroll company. This is what you pay them for.

He's not agency staff, he's their full time employee of 4 years.

but he said the got them through an agency ? unless the agency was just the middle company ?

Domestic staff agencies act essentially as introduction agencies - they interview/background check nannies, housekeepers or gardeners and then pass on candidates that meet the employer's requirements. They don't employ the staff.

fair points, my bad, i presumed they were agency staff etc

I would love to see your garden.

What. Does. His. Contract. Say. About. Sickness. Absence. And. Pay?

Ffs, much of this would be resolved in moments of you could be arsed to look up what his contract states.

Just because you've been paying in full for the odd day off here and there doesn't mean you have to pay him indefinitely.

Speak to whoever you like in the morning, THEY will STILL need to know what his contract says!

And if he hasn’t got a contract or at least a written Statement of Particulars get one done & too him ASAP as he has an automatic claim without one.

Presumably as part of their introductory service they set up the necessary contracts between employer/employee? That’s par for the course in introduction/intrview/vetting/signup process that OP has paid for.

Honestly OP, you’ve paid a fee to an agency to sign them up in a legally compliant way. I would go back to the agency, 6 week limit or whatever I don’t care, and tell them to tell you what your legal responsibilities are per their contract. That’s what you’ve paid them for.

It’s not so much that domestic staff are treated differently. It’s that the processes that an employer has to follow like:
can reasonable adjustments be made,
are there other roles the employee can transfer to, is the employee integral to the functioning of the role etc

in a domestic situation the role is usually singular and inflexible. So the time frame tends to be much shorter. So it’s not that the law is different. It is that the law is set in a way that the time frame is short and the reasons given are simple to evidence

it can be a matter of weeks rather than months

sadly it is the opened endedness of this situation. There is no indication that he will ever be fit to work.

OP, you've been given a hard time here, not surprising for MN, privilege rarely gets sympathy. We run a small business and do everything by the book - and it's a very long one. Hope you get it sorted.

@ohsososo
I think you have got some good advice here so will be able to sort things out.

It sounds like you have been an understanding person and have gone above and beyond.
For some reason many people here see the world in black and white and will have instantly decided that because you have the money to employ a gardener then they will judge you in a different light.