How long does a very small business need to keep someone signed off employed?

[ohsososo]

I mean very small business. As in one employee. They are signed off due to a car accident. It’s been 6 weeks and there is no sign of them being able to return. I have no experience of running a business. I just employ one person in a role that needs doing.

I can’t afford to pay a short term person to cover as well as pay the signed off person indefinitely.

is there government support I could get? What is SSP? Do I claim something back? Surely if there has to be a point where it’s determined I can let them go.

I’m not some awful person. I’ve already put up with so much. Missed days due to an addiction. Give them paid time off weekly to attend counselling. I’ve been really supportive but it’s become untenable.

And this too there must be some kind of contract somewhere

Fully expecting a late reveal that the gardener is a sibling or other family member hence all the indulgence of him in the past.

Thank you @NowYouSee! So Nannytax sets up the contracts for employee and employer to sign?

Did you do that OP? What does the contract say about SSP? There’s your answer!

There is no informal arrangement. Employed him through an agency and use Nanny tax. He gets 28 days paid holiday and we are very relaxed about sick days. Just not potential months of not working with no guarantee he will ever be able to work as a gardener again.

He already lost his license whilst employed by us due to drunk driving so potentially there is nothing he will be fit enough to do

but as we do not have any definitive time line from a doctor I came in here to ask how long he is expected to pay someone when they have no return date in the situation if them being the only employee who does the job.
Someone helpfully advised I contact ACAS and reminded me that domestic situations are treated differently.

Now you are spinning into some hinterland of imaginings. No. Not related.

Do you employ him? Or is he self-employed?

Thank you. That is a great idea. You are absolutely correct. Thank you for pointing this out. They have been really helpful in the past v

Because we are not monsters. Because we try to help people. Because I felt sorry for him. Because he’s kind of pathetic and I honestly didn’t know how he would ever get another job. Because I think with my heart instead of my head and end up in stupid situations like this where the person unemployed first turns out to be an alcoholic then loses his license then ends up long term unable to work. 🤦🏻♀️

I shall go and look at the contract when I am at home. As pointed out by someone else, it’s the set out by nanny tax

Thanks for your response OP. I keep harping on about the contract because it is there to protect employers and employees and there are unscrupulous parties on both sides. Plus 4 years is a considerable commitment so he deserves proportionate protection. It’s tricky.

If he’s been employed through an agency they would have got him to sign their standard contract. Ask the agency to provide you with a copy. SSP requirements should be in their terms and conditions too. Look out those docs and you will have your answer.

How big is your garden?

I know. You are right. I just keep making excuses for people because I feel sorry for them. And then I get people haranguing me in MN for being an arsehole apparently 🙁

@ohsososo yes nanny tax will help you, they are your service provider.

Big enough to benefit from a full time gardener. Don’t want ti be completely outing. Although I think I’ve done a pretty crappy job

So we got there in the end the contract is set by someone else, you can tell the agency that you aren’t happy with him, but they still cannot do anything while he is sick. Why didn’t you just bring it up with the agency in the first place?

The agency has no responsibility after the initial settling in period. It’s something like 6 weeks

You need to fund a HR consultant and pay them for half a day if their time to advise you what to do. If you don't you will almost certainly end up paying an awful lot more than half a day's consultancy.

You are going to first if all have to sort out sick pay. Then you are going to have to dismiss him on capability grounds. Both are possible but you need to do it correctly or you will end up paying out a lot of moneynshould he ever decidentintake you to an employment tribunal.

@mylurcheristhebest you haven’t ’got there in the end’ at all. Nannytax etc are matching agencies and payroll services. OP is the employer, not them, your detective work is flawed,

why are you being so harsh on the OP?

OP - I’m sorry you’re in this situation. It sounds like you have tried your utmost, certainly more than most would.

speak to your employment advisor. You have options. Hopefully you’ll only be liable for SSP from now (contract dependent).

You may also choose to no longer be an employer. For example, you may choose to outsource the garden to a company to, do a weekly or monthly service.

in that instance, this could be a redundancy situation, in a similar way a nanny of 4 years would be if a child was now going to nursery or a childminder. You can’t make someone redundant and employ another person in that role, but you can have the services provided from a third party.

i hope you get it sorted. It sounds very distressing.

I am no expert but I really don’t think you will have a leg to stand on if you get rid of him, he will most likely take to to tribunal and you will have to prove why you kept him on this long is he is such a bad employee and ‘because I felt sorry for him’ just won’t cut it, because after everything you said he had done, you still carried on his employment and only had a problem when he had had an accident. I would be very careful here if I was you

She has said herself they only cover the first 6 weeks?

Pay him SSP from now on. You could say he's been overpaid whilst he's been off and reclaim back the overpayment (difference between SSP and what youve paid him) over a period of time. Stop allowing him to be off for counselling etc and be paid for it - you are facilitating him. Agree time off without pay - tell him you've been generous but you can no longer afford to do this.

I suggest you do not employ staff in future, get a company to do the work you need.

Where are you getting this information from? It’s completely incorrect!

Maybe worth paying a freelance/outsourced type HR person for advice on how to proceed

Once you have this situation sorted out (and I do feel for you - it sounds like you've tried to be kind and it's backfired), resolve to use contractors or freelancers in future. It will be easier and safer for you.

We have discussed this and we think the same. Moving forward we will possibly just employ an external gardening service provider.

it’s worked for the past 20ish years but this experience has been so stressful and upsetting. I still feel stressed and upset with regards to what he will do going forward. He’s not a bad person. He just doesn’t really function properly. But I need to stop making this my problem.