Why is it so hard to get rid of NHS staff who take the pi** with sickness

[Danijane]

Just wondering why NHS trusts don't seem to get very firm on staff who take the piss with sickness leave?
I work on a busy admin team where staff often say "ill just go off sick if X happens..". Like going off sick (often longterm) is the solution to any problem at work.
Theres 1 girl on the team (single mum with no local family in UK) who goes off sick for several weeks every school holiday period. She's just done it again as her daughter finishes school this week. So that will be likely a couple of months off with "stress".
Another woman on the team who lives with her single mum daughter and 2 young grandkids also "gets sick" every school holiday and festive period, also for several weeks at a time. Her daughter works high power job including lots of travel.
Our manager recently said how nice it would be get time off over Xmas for a change and I asked why not book it then. She replied that she can't because the other senior on our team will be off sick... She always is off sick at Xmas but manager is frustrated as said can't do anything about it, even though it's a clear pattern.
How can this be the case? I mean why can't management do anything about persistent piss takers?
Is this an issue right across the NHS?

Its hard to get rid of any staff who take the piss with sickness.

Yep. Happens where I work, NHS too

Irrelevant.

No it's not.

What difference does it make whether they have kids or not? Genuine question.

What does her having kids have to do with it? Plenty of us have children and organise childcare for them. It’s part of being a parent.
It’s definitely possible to manage people with patterns of sickness out, even in the NHS. We’re working on it with one of my colleagues now. But we have a lot of hoops to jump through and it is creating a lot of extra work. I sometimes think we should just let them carry on doing what they’re doing, it’s easier to cover them constantly than it is to manage them out!

Yes I have kids but I use annual leave for the times I'd need to be off with them. If I can't get Al to cover childcare then I arrange holiday club or if u get really stuck then I explain to my manager that I'm literally stuck with no childcare. In that situation carers leave or unpaid leave. Think you're allowed up to 4 weeks unpaid leave per year for dependents. I'd exhaust all these options and only then would I resort to going off sick. Never had to do it though because there's usually a solution.

Utterly irrelevant

It is a very lengthy process to work through the levels of sickness. If someone is off more than a week, they need a sick note from a doctor. If doctors are happy to write sick notes that sign people off for weeks at a time, there is not much a manager can do to counter that.
I am a manager in the NHS and have managed lots of sickness. I have twice managed to support genuinely unwell staff into ill health retirement but it was a lot of work. I have had a couple of success stories with staff who had days off for slightest sign of headache, or bad night,late night etc, where I just agree to being flexible and suggest they come in a bit later and make up the time, or with a headache, come to office and drink some water , take pain relief and see if things improve. I have heard all sorts of stories about staff taking the Mick, but have not yet had to manage it. However, I do think if NHS sick pay was not so generous, people would be more likely to turn up and work!

It was just a quick question. It's not just the NHS it happens.

I'm not NHS staff but we did used to have a high sickness rate at my workplace. (Not to do with ppl trying to cover childcare i have to say).

A few years back they changed the sickness pay as previously they were paying full pay up to 6 months absence. Now its only a few days full pay.

WTF has that got to do with it ????

Because NHS policies are set up to allow for a lot of nonsense.

Public sector. 🤷‍♀️

the older staff ime tend to be better with regards sickness, although i am bound to be corrected!
there are so many procedures to go through with sickness monitoring in nhs

It seems to be a public sector problem. My DH works in the public sector- local government and he says the only way they can get rid of you here is if you die or leave. Basically it’s almost impossible to sack someone - which I find odd because isn’t there something in place legally where a company can ‘let you go’ without reason for up to two years?

There’s a woman in my DH office who takes the piss, not so much for being off but isn’t fit for the job yet she gets the same pay as others who have to correct her mistakes etc….We’re not talking minimum wage, she’s on upwards of £53k! Totally waste of company money. Higher management know about but apparently their hands are tied, though they are making an evidence file to try to get shot of her. They’ve only been there a year so I can’t understand why they can’t just say “You’re not meeting the standard” and sack them.

Point being, it’s hard to get rid of someone who isn’t up to the job basically and the impact on everyone else should be considered

Bang on!

what difference does it make?

I suspect it is a rather toxic mix of people feeling underpaid plus very generous sick pay meaning that when people see nothing happening to the people taking lots of time off sick for spurious reasons then some essentially view it as a benefit or perk of the job to get extra leave.

If management/HR were willing to clamp down on this, and they could, it would change.

A solution because you have family in this country. The lady you were talking about she does not. Also she might be really sick..

Well on here if someone drops a piece of cotton they are told to 'get signed off'

The problem nowadays is that for genuine sickness everything takes so long to get diagnosed and treated.

i had health problems last October, i was seen in a&e and referred to a consultant for further investigation. The problem was impacting my work and whole life. I am still on the waiting list and haven’t heard anything yet.

Have ended up going private, only to be told I’d been sent to the wrong specialty. Was referred to another specialist. Needed numerous gp appts and blood tests while all this was ongoing and still no diagnosis or treatment to help condition.

Seems to be if your face fits. I was NHS ,(nursing) one of our regular team was always going off sick at midnight,siting diarrhoea, she didn't actually need the job or the money . In the end our ward manager said she required a stool specimen each time... she left. Another one was always having various medical procedures. She got away with that,yet, me, I had a complicated tooth extraction by a max fax surgeon, just before Christmas. Ended up with a Dry socket, not even an emergency dentist available,those of you who have had one know the severe pain. It was planned surgery,ward manager notified. She insisted on a letter from either my dentist or the surgeon, I was unable to get either, they were closed from Christmas to past the new year. She said I would be put down as unauthorized absence. Car accident a few months later. She gave me a written warning and an official meeting with the matron!

It will only stop once they stop getting paid for it. This is what should happen unless someone is genuinely ill. I am a teacher and it’s the same people off time and time again for various different ailments and long stretches of time. They know exactly how to play the system and it isn’t fair on the people who are left behind picking up the slack.