Being asked to get to work before start time

[TooBored1]

I'm being asked to get to work earlier than my start time, to set up for the day. Is this legal?

I'm salaried, with set working hours, eg 8.30 to 4.30 with 30 mins for lunch. I work physically in an office.

We hot desk and, at our managers insistance, have to take our laptops home every night.

Our line manager is expecting us to arrive at 8.15 every day, to set up desk, turn laptop on etc before 8.30. This isn't about taking off coats/putting lunch in fridge/ making coffee, literally about physically setting up for work

And ditto re going home. We should pack up our desk in our own time.

Does anyone else's boss make them do this?

Sorry no that’s completely unreasonable. And if you are paid minimum wage, illegal. If they want you to be at work then they can pay for those hours. That includes setting up and packing up - it’s all part of work. I would push back against this strongly. It also doesn’t take 15 minutes to boot up a laptop and “set up your desk” for work so that’s an additional thing that’s unreasonable.

I think a simple "big boss manager i'm really proud of how my team are stepping to meet lean initiatives/other corporate bollocks. They are displaying really good teamwork and using their initiative and unpaid goodwill to stay late and help the company achieve - they are always ready to work at x time and it's legally unenforceable to demand they start at an earlier set time unless its in their contract - can we stop with the monkey business please." or words to that effect because what's the point of telling people off and giving them warnings about something that isn't in their contract - its not like they can sack someone for not being in at 8.15 on the dot when their start time is 8.30 ?!??!

You can spot how many people here have never had to hot desk. It is a complete pain in the arse. Setting up and clearing down your workspace takes time. All your work stuff has to be tidied and stored, IT stuff disconnected and put away. It’s not a 5 minute task.

Think of it in a different context. When I worked in a hotel bar, it opened at 10am. I had to start at 9 to prep the bar, get the food from the kitchen, collect and slice the lemons, fill and set up the coffee machine etc etc. That IS the job. I couldn’t serve customers until it was done. In OP’s case, setting up the workstation IS the job, and therefore she should get paid for it.

In my old job the reception opened at 8am. We were paid from 7:45 to allow time to set up. Any time to put your lunch in the fridge, get a brew etc.... had to be done in your own time beforehand which is fair enough.

Exactly. None of the team has a problem with getting in in time to make coffee, sort lunch etc before starting work.

Do people really think getting to work 15mins before your start time is a big ask?

My first job at the local supermarket shift starts at 8am. I walked in at 8am the first couple days and my manager told me I need to start working on the shop floor at 8am. I was mortified for some reasons, may be I felt like I was a CF. Ever since I am always early enough to be ready to work right at the start of my contracted hours and don't start packing until the hours are done. I must have worked so many more hours than an average person, I am 50! The sad thing is, I am still continue to do this knowing that this will not make my paycheck any better! Almost like a unchangeable habbit.

yes when your not being paid. 15 mins x 5 days equates to 1 hour 15 mins a week. multiply by 4 equates to 5 hours a month. it adds up
a friend of mine works for a company who actually allow them to work an extra 15 mins a day but then it's built up to extra days off they can tskr off on top of their holidays which makes it worth while for them

Over a month it is approx 5 hours unpaid attendance though, multiply that over a lot of people and the company is getting a lot of unpaid attendance
I don’t the OP has an issue with coming in a bit early to set up, the point is that the company seem to be insisting on people being in 15mins early which they cannot do when they are not paying people to be there
It was a company decision to not have dedicated desks for everyone, therefore setting up laptops etc should come out of company / paid time….

The setting up of equipment needs to be included in work time. Simple as that.

the Drs reception example is wrong - the start time needs to be 7.45am if phone lines open at 8am to allow for set up - not come in and set up your equipment in your own time

Senior managers who come up with silly micromanaging new rules usually have massive egos, are incompetent, and are a stickler for The New Rule until they find a new fad to follow. Perhaps someone they follow on LinkedIn said to expect this from staff. Can you gently suggest some less soul destroying Amazing New Fad to the manager that they'll hopefully pick up on?

I used to work in a call centre who said this, and I was also a union rep (have since worked for the union as an official) I took it to the union.

The response was, what's reasonable? If getting ready is you stroll in at 10 minutes before your shift, press 'on' on your computer, then go to the toilet, make a cuppa and stroll back to your desk at 8:59 ready for a 9am start, thats reasonable. If you have to come in at 8:45 and can't leave your computer because you need to log on to 15 different systems to be able to take your first call at 9, that's not reasonable.

These days I work from home. We start at 9, on the phones. My laptop lives in my spare room and I wander upstairs about 5 to, go to the loo, sit down around 8:58, press available at 8:59. On the rare occasion the laptop wants to do updates, I log in late. (I do set updates running at 5pm whenever it tells me there's updates, so if it decides at 8pm it wants updating-not my problem, I left it at 5 when I finished) My boss is fully in agreement with this stance.

I have a 9am meeting every morning. If I turned my laptop on AT 9, I would be late.

Of course getting to work a little earlier to make sure you’re 💯 ready to go at your start time is normal.

This is quite interesting to read through.
I am a musician, and if you are being paid for a 3 hour rehearsal that starts at 10:00, if you turned up at 10:00 you would be considered late!
Realistically, you would either get there early to warm up, or warm up at home - both unpaid. As are the hours of practice each week.
Different worlds!

Seems from your updates you are being totally reasonable. You get there early ready to start work and pack up your stuff properly after work is finished. The problem is a lack of give and take from the powers that be.
I wouldn't be happy about the insistence from bosses that you must take laptop home. What if you're on the bus with a 20min walk at the end, what if you want to go somewhere else after work? Not very accommodating of people cycling to work.

If someone is to start work and be at their machine for 8am they will arrive before go put their stuff away and head to work and clock in as they walk on the floor, so clocking on is the last thing they usually do. It could be 7:58 when they clock in and at their station for 8am even though they may arrive at 7:50

I'm NHS clinical and my hours are 8.30 to 5. This includes time to set up and put away so times we actually see patients are 9 to 4.30.
I'd be annoyed if I had to do the extra unpaid.

Aren't you self employed? I've never met a Dental Hygienist that wasn't.
They use the facilities of the practice.

Are they doing this because some people are taking advantage (not you). I wouldn't like being micromanaged.

From what you've said OP it sounds like a poor hotdesking set up, so it takes longer to set up/pack up.
I arrive, unpack laptop and plug one cable into a docking station which is attached to a power lead, monitor, keyboard and mouse, all of which stay on the desk. It takes 30 seconds longer than turning on a desktop. There's no way I'd arrive earlier or stay late if my employer couldn't sort out proper hotdesking.

It USED to be like that in the bad old days before Employment laws caught up and now we have things like national minimum wage, statutory sick pay, holiday pay, parental leave etc….

Employers have to pay you according to the law and you are only not paid when you’re taking an official break for lunch etc. where you can choose how to spend your time.

They cannot require you to begin work preparations in your own time and so they must pay you.

This is why we still need decent Trade Unions!

They are being unreasonable. Start time is the time you arrive at your place of work. If you are required to do additional things in order to start work then that’s on their time. You have already spent enough of your own time commuting into the office.

As a line manager I expected my team to be logged in ready to start work at 9, not entering the building at 8 which some couldn’t quite comprehend

I am currently both employed in one job 3 days a week and self employed in another one day a week. I do not get paid set up or close down pay in either job.

But it’s actually a very dodgy area with practices forcing self employment on hygienists who would rather be employed anyway. In my last job i was the only hygienist there and I worked 4 days a week in the same job only. I worked set hours on set days. I could not choose my hours or days. They were set by the practice. They provided my equipment. My contract (which they called a contract of services) stipulated that I could not take more than 4 weeks “annual leave” a year. I had to give 12 weeks notice to leave.
Pretty much the only thing I provided was my own uniform. Basically most (not all) practices will give you an employees contract and add in that you pay your own tax and aren’t entitled to any benefits.

I have also turned down at least three jobs after they gave me a contract that stated if the practice was investigated by HMRC and I was deemed to be employed then I would be liable for any back dated tax and fees and not the practice. So that is the practice pretty much admitting they knew I would be classed as an employee but obviously it benefits them financially for hygienists to be self employed so they will do anything possible to force that even if the hygienists don’t want it.

Nah fuck that. YANBU.