Being asked to get to work before start time

[TooBored1]

I'm being asked to get to work earlier than my start time, to set up for the day. Is this legal?

I'm salaried, with set working hours, eg 8.30 to 4.30 with 30 mins for lunch. I work physically in an office.

We hot desk and, at our managers insistance, have to take our laptops home every night.

Our line manager is expecting us to arrive at 8.15 every day, to set up desk, turn laptop on etc before 8.30. This isn't about taking off coats/putting lunch in fridge/ making coffee, literally about physically setting up for work

And ditto re going home. We should pack up our desk in our own time.

Does anyone else's boss make them do this?

When this type of thing has been enforced in offices I’ve worked in, it’s because a couple of people are regularly abusing the system - OP, you probably haven’t noticed the ones doing it.

I had someone in a team who said that their start time meant walking over the threshold of the office building. But then he was taking up to 30 minutes to get a coffee, go to the loo, get up to the right floor etc. while his colleagues had been working for 30 minutes and he was then just sitting down and starting to log in.

If he’d kept the same approach but come straight up to his desk and been 5 minutes later than everyone else it wouldn’t have been an issue.

Well from now on no more overtime. 15 mins before the end of your shift start getting ready to leave.

It wouldn’t, programmes would be adjusted,

I think its reasonable to expect folk to be ready to start work without requiring to be paid more to switch on thir computer and take their coat off.

Different to office work but when I worked in a shop we opened at 6 and started work at 6, completely ridiculous carry on. Trying to organize newspapers, shutters, tills etc all while customers were wanting serving. Closing was just as ridiculous, closed at 11. Paid till 11 and then had to sort everything out. Totally wrong. Then we got a new manager who authorised extra time so staff would start 15 minutes earlier or 15 minutes later and got paid. I once did a late shift with an assistant manager who thought I was going to stay a extra 45 minutes to help him do the shit he hadn't bothered to do earlier, he was wrong I went home and left him to it.
Anyway they should work out how long it takes to set up, log on whatever and pay the equivalent.

What's your trade union saying about it? If you are not in a trade union, join one.

It’s always been standard wherever I have worked, paid to actually be ready to start at 8.30 and finish at whatever time then pack away

Never had an issue myself. But I do know of people who refused and took longer, pissed off colleagues as they had to take the calls do the work until the person was ready, pissed of the employer as they were not prepared to do as others do, and found it difficult when they wanted time off for dentist etc and were told they had to make the time up, whereas those who gave freely of the extra few minutes to set up and put away didn’t have to, haven’t already made the time up by their actions

Up to you if you want to be seen as a team player or not, and if not just don’t expect any give and take from anyone

I can't imagine being a person, or working with people who habitually cut things so fine that they're literally ready to start at the exact minute their contract dictates, but setting up is part of the job. If that needs doing before the official start time, time needs to be allowed for it in the contracted hours

If the OP was on minium wage (I know that she's not) then what the manager is proposing would mean that the staff were being paid below minimum wage, which is illegal.

Hours that count for minimum wage purposes
Generally, a salaried hours worker is regarded as working for minimum wage purposes if they are:

• at work and required to be at work
• on standby or on-call at or near their place of work, unless they are at home
• kept at their place of work but cannot work, for example because of machine breakdown
• travelling on business
• training or travelling from a workplace to training

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/calculating-the-minimum-wage/working-hours-for-which-the-minimum-wage-must-be-paid

So it would seem reasonable to take the view that if you are required to be at work then it is working time and should be paid

No, they can’t legally require you to be ‘working’ in the office before your contracted time because setting up your desk is still working.

I think I’d go back to your manager and ask them whether they’d prefer you to be there a few mins before and after instead of doing anymore extra unpaid overtime?

We also hot desk and have to set up when we get in. And pack away when we've finished. Not a chance it takes 15 minutes! If you start work at 8, you're ready to work at 8. Not fannying around getting yourself set up for 5 minutes. Do you genuinely believe, OP, that if you start work at 8:00, you log on at 8:15?! Madness.

@CombatBarbie what? If you start work at a set time, that’s means ready to START WORK not arriving in the car park. Extraordinary and disrespectful to think otherwise.

What takes so long leave laptop in Standby
Couple of minutes top

I don’t get the work to rule mentality I think there would be very few who could say they don’t have a personal cell or chat in the office or get a drink when they are not in be my brake all this in works time yet they main about a couple of minutes

we were always expected to be signed in and ready by start time

I'd say you'll arrive when you're being paid to be there.

It's ridiculous to suggest that turning on your computer is not part of your job role.

Just read your update about having to pack your whole system away. They should be paying you for that time, presumably they're saving a fortune if you're hot desking.

if hotdesking is adding to the time it takes to set up, then I think it is fair that employers pay for that time. They are using hotdesking as a cost cutting measure. The calculations need to account for all costs.

🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️ In that case, the manager needs to do their job properly and manage that ONE member of staff who’s taking the piss.

I absolutely detest managers that can’t deal with conflict and instead wimp out sending stupid directives to every member of staff.

Those shitty managers are not doing their job properly and need sacking IMO.

Thank you. No that was the only start of her piss poor management, i could write a book on it. Luckily i got another job a year later - left her in the lurch before xmas big time :) I heard after she got fired so Karma does work :)

Bit of a piss take.

5 mins beforehand would be quite enough even if you had to do a restart.

But more than that, the manager risks alienating staff and making them feel under the kosh and on his/her radar. You may as well be clocking in old style. Its not an environment conducive to a productive atmosphere and staff will not go the extra mile for the company - they will hold the employer increasingly to a strict contractual relationship so you lose that added value/goodwill/give and take which employees contribute which is largely the lifeblood of an organisation and a huge asset in itself. The fact that the boss here doesnt get that shows a level of backwardness that doesnt bode well. But this is the modern workplace I guess.... their attitude is 'there are plenty more where you came from'.

I used to work for a really arsehole of a company. We started at 8.30 and they too insisted that we were there at 8.15 to set up and be ready for 8.30. It only took 5 minutes to get your pad out and pc turned on. So i would sit there from 8.20 and not start work till 8.30, once it turned 8.30 i would begin, but those 10 minutes i just sat there, no answering emails or the phones as i didnt start for another 10 minutes.

Most people did this so they changed to "if you are at your desk you work" so i would log on then bugger off to kitchen or outside or the toilet till 8.30. This even included lunch time, you couldnt sit at your desk because if you did you had to work, no eating or reading or looking at your phone.

I left as i was not willing to give them my time for free.

Nope, I'd be telling them not a chance, it''s not your problem if things need setting up every day due to decisions they have made.

Surely as soon as you have clocked in you are being paid though, in that type of role?

It's always been the way. I remember being about 15 so 40 years ago and arriving for my Saturday job at 9am to be told, the shop opens at 9am, you need to be here 15 mins earlier to hang your coat up, get your till etc. in the call centre it was ten minutes before to find a desk and log on, same in an office ten mins to login and get ready.

Why are you doing unpaid overtime though? Just finish when you stop being paid. If you get any comments about it, say that what with all the instructions about setting up and packing up to ensure you are actually working from 8:30 to 4:30, you took that to mean that you actually stop at 4:30.

This^ and stop working overtime for free.