I'm shocked at the entitlement, others think it's normal..?

[Bigstyle]

I work for a small charity. There are three very important, very well paid executives and a small team of "workers".

The executives like their coffee and mostly make it themselves, using the office pod machine. But at the end of the day they bring their cups into the main office for the most junior staff member to wash.

Now, I get that our job is basically to support them, but I can't imagine doing this to my staff. The "junior" doesn't have hot drinks so it's not even like she's going to wash her own cup.

I think it's outrageous, the general attitude it demonstrates rather than the task, but they clearly think it's perfectly normal.

Is it?

I agree with you completely. It's inappropriate at best.

Not unless junior staff member's job involves cleaning.

Otherwise, they should say - that's not my job. Then not wash the mugs.

I am not sure how this situation arose if the junior isn't even washing up their own things. Were they asked and agreed? Did they see dirty mugs and just start washing them up?

At my workplace, the boss is normally the one who washes up. But she doesn't feel the need to show dominance which I expect is what is going on.

I agree it’s inappropriate. It doesn’t happen at my place of work (we sort our own kitchen stuff out) but I’m a team leader and I’d be happy to wash the cups up at the end of the day - I’d make sure it was never a junior’s job to do it.

Completely normal, often part of the job for a junior when they are senior someone will wash their cup.

Junior has pushed back quite firmly, but Execs find it funny that she thinks it's an unreasonable request.

For now, I'm doing it, because I can't find it in myself to insist she does (and I'm her boss).

Can I ask in what kind of workplace this is normal?

I'm a senior manager and we had a junior person begin with us (also happened to be the youngest member of the team and female). She started doing this and I specifically asked her not to and explained about the power dynamics, etc. I said that's not a culture I want to encourage.

Leave them on the side unwashed. If they comment then mention that its not in your job description to do the dishes!
I worked in a big office and everyone washes their own cup --some lazy git leaves theirs in the sink but noone moves it. We passively agressively wash our own round it- 😉

I think it is awful behaviour on their part

It was an ‘expectation’ 40 years ago. But even then it was demeaning. You were considered to be difficult or bolshie if you said it wasn’t your job.

Are they all men? I was one of two women in my previous workplace and all the men left dirty cups, plates, forks you name it in the kitchen sink. The other woman washed up every day and I felt bad for her but refused to help. Lazy fuckers

The people drinking the coffee need to clear up their mess

LOL I can't imagine my MD ever washing up a mug. Luckily it's something we have as part of our cleaning contract - but I'd be careful. You might be able to argue it but I wouldn't, just not to get on the bad side of the execs.

We can all agree that the principle’s a bit shit but the reality is their time is ££££ more valuable than the office junior’s.

i’m more surprised that you’re doing it rather than speak to the junior.

I don't know because it depends on your dynamic and the value they bring. I have worked in places where the juniors thought very highly of themselves in this sort of way, but actually had very limited skills and were a burden largely to the org. It might have been good for them to realise this and make themselves useful, before they were made redundant. It's good to show willing and be industrious and cheerful as a junior when you are mainly learning and not contributing that much. It's what I did and I didn't feel demeaned by it. I was grateful for the opportunity. I can see that there are workplaces where that could land differerently.

This may have been normal practice 30+ years ago but we're in 2024 FFS.

I would never expect my staff to wash up for me. How demeaning.

Let's face it, it's a power trip for these 'high powered executives' (who are probably overpaid) and to remind the junior workers of the pecking order.

Yeah but these are the execs

You know, in a charity

So you should expect altruistic, respectful behaviour.

Right??

about the power dynamics, etc. I said that's not a culture I want to encourage

^

Yip.

40 years ago maybe, but certainly not in any kind of modern workplace that isn't stuck in the dark ages.

So your'e washing the cups?!!

No, they're not.

This has not been the norm since about 1980 - even then it felt exploitative. I wonder what other covert signals are embedded in the culture of this charity to keep young women in their place?

I used to temp regularly and so i saw a lot of varied office dynamics. In the past, it was fairly common for the admin support team to be responsible for general tidying up of the communal kitchen space - washing mugs/putting them in dishwasher etc. However, that was usually fairly specifically articulated - eg I'd know in advance before turning up if that was expected as part of my remit for the week I was covering or whatever.

However, what I have found subsequently is that usually the moment there is a formal workspace, there is a general expectation for peoople to ALL tidy up after themselves - ie put their mugs in sink/dishwasher etc - BUT that there is a specific cleaner who is responsible, usually overnight, for doing the actual washing up etc. Which I think is a better option and avoids all this drama of people being aked to do menial tasks that are completely outside of their job description.

Incidentally, I don't think that anyone in an office should be doing actual washing up. For a start, that's not your job. We are all busy. If you are a really good administrator, your job is administration, not washing up. I don't ask the cleaner to set up a meeting for me, so why do offices seem to think that the admin people should do the cleaning? So in this specific case, I would be proposing that whatever arrangements are made with your building's cleaning staff should specificall inlcude that the kitchen needs to be cleaned, including washing up and putting away tea/coffee mugs.

Let me guess, execs are all male and junior is female? It's rude and disrespectful imo unless they are being paid to clean.