I'm shocked at the entitlement, others think it's normal..?

[Bigstyle]

I work for a small charity. There are three very important, very well paid executives and a small team of "workers".

The executives like their coffee and mostly make it themselves, using the office pod machine. But at the end of the day they bring their cups into the main office for the most junior staff member to wash.

Now, I get that our job is basically to support them, but I can't imagine doing this to my staff. The "junior" doesn't have hot drinks so it's not even like she's going to wash her own cup.

I think it's outrageous, the general attitude it demonstrates rather than the task, but they clearly think it's perfectly normal.

Is it?

Goodness, I'm on the outs in this thread!

I suppose I don't find it demeaning to wash up. That was my actual job for years and I don't find it to be some disgraceful thing to wash cups.

Yes, as a manager I often wash my team's cups, so I take them with me.

I spent a long time working in schools and without fail, in the well run schools the head took a turn at the washing up. That's not to say that the head "wasting time" washing up makes a well run school, but I think the kind of attitude it demonstrates does.

I've always been a don't ask anyone to do something you wouldn't do yourself leader.

My daughter is an apprentice and she has to do this! Even when she has been on holiday they will leave the washing up all week for her to do! She recently had a review and he told her she is currently failing her probation as she does not keep on top of the washing up and hoovering (they have a cleaner). Her apprenticeship is in nothing relating to cleaning or hospitality.

She recently had a review and he told her she is currently failing her probation as she does not keep on top of the washing up and hoovering (they have a cleaner

^

She needs an alternative apprenticeship

We take it in turns, the CEO will have a turn. It's about respect. Only really takes a few minutes it's not like they are taking up precious time. Can be good for thinking time!

I knew a lovely young girl who was in the same situation except with one exec. She coped by rinsing the mug in the loo. He never got sick and it just made her feel better about the whole deal brilliant she had enough experience under her belt to get another job. It’s one way to deal with a misogynistic prick I guess.

It's not that washing cups is demeaning, it's that being expected to do something they clearly see as beneath them is.

Why are you doing it? You’re really undermining her stance that it’s an inappropriate ask. Woman up and leave them unwashed!

Everyone here puts their mug, plates and things into the dishwasher here. The cleaner tends to put the machine on while she is cleaning as she normally arrives early and has a sandwich and a coffee before she starts. Whoever is in first empties the dishwasher, turns on the water boiler etc.

@harriethoyle I agree. Either you think it IS the admin team's responsibility, in which case the admin team should perhaps be on a roster OR you think it should be everyone's responsibility, in which case the entire team should be on a roster OR you think it's not the responsibility of anyone in the office in which case you shouldn't be doing it either.

No they're not, they're middle aged women, possibly with bit of a chip about having "made it" in a man's world. I guess they would probably have refused to do it when they were coming up.

I worry about the optics of it (as well as the actual unreasonableness) because junior is a young headscarf wearing muslim woman, but possibly I'm over thinking that.

Yes, it's a really shitty attitude.

I went on a time management course for managers a while ago.

They gave us a load of tasks, some big and done small, and asked us to rank them in order of importance.

Most related to work, but one was "wash up your cup".

When we went through the answers, they said we should all have put washing up our cups in the most important category, as leaving it for junior staff just isn't worth the resentment it creates. You may think it's trivial but it isn't. Wash your own bloody cup up, managers was a strong message from that day!

I really rated them for that.

I agree, in any new management post I always make a point of washing up and making the tea. I just think it's such an easy way of building a team that works together.

That was your job though. It's not this person's job - the senior execs are making her wash up because they think they're above it. They are the ones that think it's demeaning to them.

You should stop too. Say nothing and just stop.

I spend a great deal of my time talking about the value of automation and technology in the workplace. I have different clients, in different industries, but it's something they're all talking about. And what this looks like varies hugely. But the single biggest similarity across the board is that the more automation we can put in place, the more we can free up time for our people to do work that actually adds value. So I disagree that washing a cup is really important. Washing a cup is not helping anyone, except a cleaner, to meet their job goals.

It's very old fashione but sometimes I think back to the "tea ladies" that existed in my dad's office and my first workplace. I wonder how much less time was wasted by Mary coming round 3x a day with a cup of tea and a biscuit vs people wondering off to the kitchen to make their own.

Maybe their time is just more valuable? It undoubtedly is.

Don’t get me wrong I would always wash my own cup etc with the best of them but it makes no sense to assign meaning to things that may not have any meaning

It's a very shitty and outdated attitude. I remember working for a company, where every day the Managing Director emptied the clean dishwasher first thing in the morning because he got to the office first. It wasn't a small office or a tiny company either. He did it every day because he didn't think he was better than anyone else, or because he didn't see it as his job. I respected him so much because of it.

Maybe they need to manage their time more effectively, if they can't spare a minute to clean up their own mess.

Well i wouldn't do it and i'd take them all the way on this.

I know it's no longer part of the dynamic to have juniors tidying. It's supposed to send a signal that there are basic human things we all take a turn in. I wouldn't expect a junior to do my dry cleaning or buy mum a birthday card.

It hugely annoys me though to have to pretend it's better for the highest paid highest value employee, who can use their discretionary time for exponential benefit to the organisation, to wash up when there are people with less experience, and less power to get things done, on much lower salaries who could do it at half the cost to the charity.

If coffee in the office is a perk for everyone then the office should find a way to wash up, by giving someone that task in a cost effective way.

The trouble is the optics, it's hard for someone to be in the washing cups role and still be seen as just as valuable to the org because of status. So it does tend to lead to bad treatment and inflexible thinking, in a way which treating everyone as a human taking care of their physical human needs, like washing, doesn't.

I do find that the main problem of today's otherwise excellent cultural changes is that they lead to day to day inefficiency, a lot of the time. When we work out how to move at the pace of trust /give everyone a say/ honour equity / use a power lens AND get stuff done rapidly and decisively, then we will have Won Doing Things.

It's a frustrating tension to be focused on impact and the ends, in a charity, and to simulataneously know that "being the change" often requires focusing on the means. If you use the right process for everything we have to trust it will lead to better longer term impacts - but pretty much it always leads to shorter term disbenefits.

WTH!!

I work for a branch of a big American corporation, all capitalist etc .

Noone has a PA / EA, the CEO sits across from me and books his own flights etc, fixes IT stuff in meeting rooms as he's more knowledgeable that way etc.

Not saying that's normal either but I can't believe what you're saying is going on in a charity!!!

So, this is really interesting to me, because I could be this exec described! (I don't think I am because I hardly ever go into the office, but I COULD be this immoral monster.)

In my work I have some highly specialist technical skills. Nobody else can do these things - they haven't got those skills - and we really really need the work doing. Our beneficiaries really need that work.

Why is it bad if I do that work and someone else washes a cup, when they can't do the work we need that only I can do? We only have so many hours in the day - how do we want to spend them most effectively. I work a 60 hour week and at around 15% of my market rate for this charity, because I think it's worthwhile and important work. But it's immoral for someone without these skills, but with hands and a bit of vim, to bring me coffee? I don't think it is immoral to divide labour according to skills. I will shock you all by saying they also bring me lunch and sometimes pick up equipment and make phone calls, while I work on this stuff.

The thing I need from them is the facilitation of my work - the wifework if we're honest - that makes me able to do my work to the best of my ability. TBH if I've also got to do that, what do I need them for?

I agree with you. I wash my own cup.

I was in senior position at my previous company, in a very male dominated office. The director asked me to pop into the boardroom where a meeting was taking place, I thought it was to explain something about our procedures etc. I was instead asked to make everyone drinks (15 or so middle aged men), take orders and remember everyone’s preference, like some wonder waitress. I nodded, made some random mix of teas and coffees, left the large tray in the boardroom, said ‘I hope you all enjoy’ and left with a smile.

Needless to say I was never-ever asked again. 🖕🏻