How do you fit in 35 hours of work if you do all school runs?

[Hillrunning]

I manage someone who doesn't appear to be doing anywhere near her 35 hours a week and have been advised to get her to confirm when she is completing thoes hours.

She does all school drop off and pick ups Tuesday to Friday and very often on Mondays too. She has also stated that her children have sports/activities 3 nights a week.

I just can't see how she has 35 hours spare to work with unless doing them at very unsociable hours. While she has a partner it's made very clear that he does not support and work out of the home 9 to 5.

It would be very useful to hear from others of thier patterns if they have similar demands please.

im perhaps unduly harsh but why do you need to find a way to make it work? Surely that is up to the employee, your issue is performance, ultimately if she cannot do this job then she needs to look at cutting her hours or finding a part time job, or make suggestions to you on a solution, not pick up a full time wage for part time hours. I know it’s difficult to find staff at the minute but you are more in danger of your staff that are performing well getting pissed off with the situation and leaving.

When I was fitting in the school runs I always had my time blocked out on Teams, less chance of having to decline meetings unless my schedule hadn’t been checked. I give as much flexibility back, probably more now as my DC are older and school runs are a thing of the past, I don’t miss them, I always felt on the go. I have worked with colleagues in the past who seem very entitled and expect employers to fit in with their lives offering very little in return. Flexibility works both ways, gain your employers and colleagues trust by going over and above when you can, lessens the guilt when you need more time for personal situations. I’ve had different managers come and go, I won’t pretend I didn’t breathe a sigh of relief finding out they had DC so they would be more sympathetic to family life. I didn’t need ground rules set for me and seems there are many like minded people on this thread, some people do though, they are piss takers and probably breed resentment from others.

I’m sorry?! The manager said basically this woman has always taken the piss, so you feel sorry for this woman?? Why? I really hope you have the management skills to have the performance conversation you need to have with her, where she has to do her hours and turn up 3 days a week as she’s required to, before other team members that don’t take the complete piss get fed up and leave.

I a full working week while doing school drop offs a few years back. I live less than a mile from the school and drove it, nipped in, nipped out. I was back before 9am (I did cut it fine a few times) and I didn't have lunch or a full lunch to be able to pick up at 3.15 or 3.30. Can't remember now. Again, nip in and out but you have less control at pick up if there is a delay in release from the class.

The only issue came when 3 in a team of 4 did the school pick up and phones weren't covered.

Gosh. I did a full working week that should say 🫣

It’s a very narrow window when children are old enough to be left to entertain themselves for two hours every single day, and are also too young to walk home from school alone. So any of my reports trying this one would get a significant raised eyebrow. Maybe one year when the youngest child falls into this window, but not for years and years. They must be either neglecting work or children.

Basically she's taking the piss which makes me angry because this sort of thing is what gives WFH a bad name!

My DC are a little older now and I don't need to do school pick up because my youngest walks home alone, I just spend 15 minutes with her to get her a snack etc, which I time for when I make myself a cup of tea anyway. When they were younger I did pick up 3 days a week and worked it around my breaks and working a bit later to make the time up.
Drop off doesn't count really because it's to breakfast club so I'm always at my desk before 9am. School is a 5 minute walk which helps!
There has never been any issue with my output so none of my managers have been that bothered about clock watching, but I wouldn't dream of taking the piss like this woman is!

She should be using wrap around care at least some days, and working in the evenings.

Huge thanks again all. I had a meeting with my union rep today to talk them through everything I'd done so far and they assured me that it taken the right approach (firm but fair with lots of clear expectations and offers of support) Paired with you all helping me understand the different ways that you juggle this, this has made me feel much better. She has been given till Monday to confirm a typical week. My manager, HR and the union will then support me in next steps depending on what she provides.

It sounds like she is taking the Mickey. I worked PT 9.15am to 3pm when DC were little school only 5 minutes from my work and paid for wraparound care one day a week to give me more flexibility to cover certain work events which happened on a particular day of the week. With DC under 8 they will need her input and supervision both before and after school.

Have a chat ask her to explain that the current arrangement aren’t working for your business 1) ask her to confirm to you her exact core hours 5 days a week 2) ask her to incorporate this information underneath her email signature so you, her colleagues and customers if relevant are aware of her availability 3) say that you want her and other team members in the office for X days a week every week unless they have one off occasional exceptional circumstances 4) you could give her two weeks or a month or so to book her ideas up and either book and pay for wraparound care or book and pay for a childminder or enlist a family member etc. You could also check whether the school if known provides wraparound childcare before you speak to her.

Is it acceptable for her to decline meetings outside certain hours? It wouldn't be where I work. I would get her to confirm her hours on a time sheet and confirm if she looks after her kids at the same time during those hours or not.

She can put any old rubbish down when she confirms her working week - how is anyone going to confirm she makes up time 8-10pm for example?

The point is, she isn’t working when she is required to be in meetings, she is not present in office when expected, and whatever hours she’s claiming to be logged on she isn’t meeting performance expectations. For me, the going MIA is a misconduct matter in addition to the performance issues.

Good luck OP, it’s horrible taking people through performance management measures but it’s very hard to ignore the fact the ultimate consequence might be losing their job and start feeling sorry for them. Even when they are taking the piss!

Probably stating the obvious, but for any follow on conversations it may be helpful to have handy a copy of any policies or internal guidance on flexi working hours, working from home, office attendance, contractual arrangements about base work location etc.

I know our company internal guide on flexi working gives an expectation of 40% non home working (so office or other face to face), to have child care arrangements in place for normal working hours, and for teams to have core hours that all are expected to be available for.

This is pretty much what I do. I work 31 hrs across 4 days but my dc are with their dad on a Tuesday night so I tend to work a longer day then.

I work 6-7, 9-2.30, 3.30-5 and when required in the evenings or at weekends.

Started work at 9:30 dropped DD off and went to work. Worked til 5:30, ran to the tube station, ran to the school to collect DD at six when after school club finished. Then compressed hours a bit and dropped to 32 hours so I could pick up at 3:30 twice a week. Single parent.

I work full time and do the school run most days.

Breakfast club starts at 7:45 I am home by 7:55 - After School club finishes at 18:00 (there are additional activities you can pay for during this slot like cooking and football skill etc) so finish work at 17:48.

I get up at 5, work 5-7, school run, work 9-3, school run and dinner then work 7-11 and I also do some more work at weekends if the DC are independently playing

I do 65+ hours across two jobs. Breakfast & after school club and lots of planning makes it possible.

DH does all school pick ups as he drives and school is too far to walk.

He drops DD off at 8:50, is back to start work for 9am, pops out at 2:55 and is back by 3:10, works til 5 or 6pm ish. I also WFH so we can keep an eye on DD, but she knows she has to entertain herself during that time.

2 nights a week she has clubs that start at 4pm, he drives her to the club and parks up outside with his laptop to work from his car.

The only time he misses is the driving time and he rarely takes a lunchbreak so I think he covers his hours.

If she's taking 4 hours out a day to do the school run she's taking the piss.

One of my reports does 9-3, then 4-5.30. She has her retired Dad though who swings past to supervise the kids til she finishes. Works for her. Im very happy though for her to work outside those times if needs be.
I worked full time with 3 dcs and no help and would have given my right arm for flexibility, it would have improved mine and my kids lives.
I try very hard to remember that with my team.

I do the breakfast and morning school runs for my daughter so that she can get a head start. She often works from home so can do two hours before the time she’d normally be back from school. That way she’s done 7-8 hours before she goes to pick them up. She does sometimes do more work once they’re home in the afternoon, but some weeks are obviously busier than others.
I’m not sure she’d be able to do the hours otherwise, even breakfast club doesn’t really cut it. Our primary school only lets children do after-school activities one day a week. Neither of us want the children to do after school club, they used to but were exhausted before Thursday night.

Why do you think that? My DD4 comes home from school, I grab her a snack, and she's quite happy to watch TV or play for a couple of hours. Maybe if you're doing very precise work which requires 100% concentration (which I couldn't do either) it wouldn't work out well, but my job is mostly bouncing emails around so if she sticks her head around the door to ask me a question it's really nbd.

She knows if either of us is on a Teams call she has to wait or go and bother the other one.

While DS was at primary, I purposely worked for an employer that was close to the school. I dropped ds at school at 8.40 and was at my desk at 9.00. DS went to ASC, I left work at 5.30 and collected ds at 5.50. It was tight but doable.

Once at Senior school, I dropped DS at the school bus at 7.45, went to wfh for 8.00, then stopped work at 5.15 and collected ds from school bus at 5.35.

We're judged on outputs, but even when it's quieter it's rare that you can get it done in less than 35 hours, so the time worked takes care of itself.

One of my colleagues does the daily school runs. He's normally unavailable for 45 minutes morning and afternoon. However he starts at 8am, takes a short lunch, and normally doesn't finish until 5.30. He's really clear about blocking out the school run time in his calendar so people know where he is but also when he'll be available again. It works because everyone trusts him not to take the piss - and he doesn't.

Someone in a neighbouring team last year, was more like your colleague. She ended up leaving because she was put on weekly 121s for performance coaching to improve her delivery, and when presented with her log-in times (our VPN auto-disconnects after 15 minutes of inactivity) she quickly realised that she wasn't going to be able to bluff her way through. The firm offered to reduce her hours, but she said she couldn't afford not to work full time.

My colleague works late evening to compensate. Is she doing this?