How do you fit in 35 hours of work if you do all school runs?

[Hillrunning]

I manage someone who doesn't appear to be doing anywhere near her 35 hours a week and have been advised to get her to confirm when she is completing thoes hours.

She does all school drop off and pick ups Tuesday to Friday and very often on Mondays too. She has also stated that her children have sports/activities 3 nights a week.

I just can't see how she has 35 hours spare to work with unless doing them at very unsociable hours. While she has a partner it's made very clear that he does not support and work out of the home 9 to 5.

It would be very useful to hear from others of thier patterns if they have similar demands please.

I’m measured by output, but that often means more than 35 hr weeks. Generally, pick up, bedtime, log back on after 8ish. Loads of my friends do it, but we work in corporations where management trust you and are flexible - as long as my work is done

I think I would change perspective a little bit. The hours sorta don’t matter but you have said it is affecting her otherwise.

As others have said it should be output that is measured not strict hours (unless her job requires this).

I would hold a meeting with her and look to address the following things:

1. Objectives. Review her objectives and where she is tracking against them. Has she been set up for success and does she need anything. Make sure you do this so that if she isn’t achieving you have supported her as well as possible.
2. Peer and internal feedback. Do you have an internal,survey or feedback you can get to understand if this is a wider perceived problem and how others think she is achieving in her job. This will,help your perspective and will also help your case if you are concerned about performance.
3. Communication. I would suggest that this is lacking if you don’t know what she is doing but I do not agree with micromanagement, Ask her to list all,of her projects and provide a weekly update on progress. You can say with hybrid working this will,make it easier to communicate progress and promote what she is doing.

Do a lot of listening and not a lot of talking. Ask questions on where she think she is and how she is doing. There is a very big difference between capability and performance. Make sure you have given her everything to succeed so that she can be capable in her job. If it is her performance point to very specific examples of where she is not meeting targets or objectives. Do not bring up hours unless she is letting the above done by absence.You can say you have noticed that she isn’t performing to her usual standards and want to understand why and address it.

Follow up the meeting with an email on discussion and outcomes. This will help you if it doesn’t et enter or clarify things for her if they need to change. Good luck.

I work 37.5 hrs/week (8am-3:30/4pm). We use breakfast club (starting at 7:30am) and after school club (until 5:30pm). My commute is 30mins. I can do both the breakfast club drop-off and after school club collection around my hours if necessary, although the breakfast club drop-off is very tight for arriving at work on time.

In reality my husband does the morning drop-offs to give me more time to get to work, and I do all the after school pick-ups so he isn't in a rush leaving at exactly 5pm.

Edited to add that I work Mon-Fri. Also, the wraparound drop-off / pick-up is much quicker than the regular school drop off and collection. No chat, no waiting around outside the classroom or other distractions.

I do 35 hours. I drop off at 8am and work at 8.30am. Leave at 2pm or 2.30pm and pick up from school back home by 3.30pm. WFH until 5pm / 5.30pm.

For context it would be interesting to know how long she has worked under your management and how long it has been suspected that she is not fulfilling her full working hours and underperforming. Also has this ever been addressed with HR in the past ? I think although the two are interlinked, not working her full hours and underperforming are two separate issues that both need addressing. She’s technically stealing company time if you can prove she is being paid for hours she is not actually working.

I have a 2 year old and a 3 year old and currently work 4 days a week (32 hours) as I recently dropped my Fridays in August. Both my husband and myself need to be at work for 8.15am so if I was to keep my hours when my oldest starts school next year we would have to pay for him to be in breakfast club from half 7 and after school club as well which would cost us approx £300 p/m. So I can see why wrap around care might not be an option for 3 kids - honestly childcare support from the government in this country is appalling. Plus it’s also a ridiculously long day - my oldest will have only just turned 4 and his day would be 7.30am-5.30/6pm which is longer than my day. If I cut my hours to be able to do school drop off and pick up, it would look like 9.30am-2.30pm with no lunch break and working Fridays again which would only be 25 hours p/w and I’d be running around like a headless chicken.

Whether her work is suffering because of the lack of hours she is able to put in or the amount of work she is expected to do is ‘too much’ it sounds like changes need to be made. Whether the changes need to come from her or the company or a bit of both will need to come from HR/high level management. I would also be prepared for her to go down the well being route as well, if it transpires she is struggling to keep up with work life balance, which could add another layer of complexity from a HR pov.

"Look you're clearly not working sufficient hours as expected to get the job done, most likely because you are taking time off out of working hours to pick up your kids, am I right??"

await response

"Right, give me the times you are planning to work, I want you working in those times and I will be calling you during those times randomly and will send you a 10 digit number through teams which you will read back to me - if you fail to achieve that you can pick up your P45 from HR - got it - right - bye"

DH and I are 50/50 on the pick ups/drop offs and use the school breakfast and after school club every day. We are both hybrid, so whoever is WFH doe the kids, the other can go as early as they please and come home when they please.

Across a fortnight I therefore work:
5 days at home, 8.30 - 4.45
5 days in the office 8-4.30

There is absolutely no way I could fit a full week into school hours and (others will disagree, I know, but it depends on the job) breaking the day into piecemeal bits is ineffective as an ongoing plan in the long run, although it's helpful to be able to flex around school shows etc.

It's easy for me. I work from home 9-3 three days a week, and office 10-5 two days. I then work as many evenings as needed when DC are in bed, typically 8pm-11pm.

I work 3 days and do school drop off every day and pick up all but one, at the normal times of 9 and 3.30. So I work ten till 3 2 days and 10 till 5 the other day. It takes me working at least 4 evenings a week to make up the missing hours plus an occasional extra afternoon if can get childcare for my younger child. I don't see how you could manage if you worked 5 days.

Sounds like weak management all over. You need clear expectations or the staff who don’t take the piss will get fed up. They probably already are. I’m pissed off with this woman and I don’t work with her!
Ww are required to log our hours. It’s a declaration. Making a false declaration is fraud. I like it because it allows me to work hybrid and flexible. People like your team member are ruining this flexibility for others.

I was left by my DD's other parent very soon after she started school. At the time I was working 37 hours per week and I was just about able to manage it, although this did involve DD staying right to the end of after-school club at 6pm, and it was exhausting for both of us.

Fortunately this was years ago, and it was possible for me to afford to reduce my hours to 30 per week, and this was better for both of us. But even then, that did require after-school club.

It very obviously wouldn't have been possible otherwise.

If she's not managing the outputs, then it's a problem.

I took some time off work when my son was young because of some significant health issues. I needed to work part time, but my boss felt that she needed someone full time, so I took a leave of absence. The woman who took over my job spent 30-35 hours a week on the main project. I had spent much less time on that project, but thought it might be necessary because the project had ostensibly ramped up while I was off. Eventually I was brought back on the understanding that I could do no more than 20 hours a week. Interestingly I was able to do the same amount of work/outputs in the 15-20 hours a week while the project was in full swing, that the other woman took 30-35 hours to do. I was just much more efficient than she was. (I had tried to tell her some of my tricks for being efficient, but she was young and without kids and really had no interest in changing her habits.)
It sounds like you may need to figure out if this woman can be helped to work more efficiently, but be prepared that she just isn't capable of it.

School is 10min walk away. Surely I can go for a 30min break if I want to? Drop off is before 9 so before work starts. Are you telling me your employees can’t take a half hour break. I’m glad I’m judged on output.

I work above and beyond and was fixing issues till 11pm today.

I’m surprised at all those who can’t manage! So DC1 school starts at 8.30 and I drop her off by car to save £2 bus fee. I get back home and walk DC2 to primary and usually leave school by 8.35. I get home by 8.45 and have time to get coffee and log on by 9.

DC1 takes bus home. DC2 school finishes at 3.25. I leave home at 3.15 and always back home by 3.45. Then I work till 5.30 to 6.

9 to 5.30 is 8 and a half hours. A school run of 30min still gives me a 30min lunch break. You don’t even need to work out of hours to cover 9 to 5.30.

I do all the school pick ups and two of the drop offs, I don't take a lunch break, and when I work from home I login for a bit before the school run, and log in again after the school run until 5.30 when I pick DD2 up from nursery, on the days I do drop off and pick up, I start at 9, and my lunch break is then used for pick up, and I log back in when I get home from school.

I work into the evening and my workin g hours are evident with the paperwork I complete and send out and my replies to emails, etc. I actually end up doing extra time unpaid :(

You do meetings whilst sorting lunches and sometimes helping the kids get ready?
How old are they?

I don’t do all the school runs but I do some, as some of my colleagues. In general, people log back in when kids are in bed and yeah, work unsociable hours 🤷‍♀️ But im in high pressured job where we don’t just clock off regardless of school runs anyway

Sorry based on your description she’s taking a piss.

she needs to be put on performance improvement plan, and she doesn’t improve she needs to be let go.

Agree.

It's not fair to co workers who are putting in honest days work for the same wage.

Does she need to work during a particular period- eg be available from 9-5?
Ive known people manage the school/kids issue by working after the kids bedtimes- often pretty late but that works for our jobs as we also had to talk to different time zones so he could use this time to deal with those issues

I think tbh though she isn't performing so you need to start performance managing her - and if she is only failing becasue she isn't working the hours it would be relatively easy for her to correct- by using childcare and upping her hours.
How do you know so much about her husband?

I used to manage it by using breakfast club, and working 8-3, without a break.
Now, he goes to 'big' school on the bus, so is out from 8-4:30.
Could your colleague work from home, in the evenings, or at weekends, to fit the hours in?

I do all drop off and picks ups and I am in the office for 32 hrs per week. Drop off at 7.30am for breakfast club, in the office by 8.30am and leave each day at 2.45pm with the exception of Monday which is a little later at 3.30pm because DD does an afterschool club at the school. Often home by 4pm and occasionally log on from home for another hour if work is busy whilst DD does her homework. She does various dance sports clubs through the week also starting at around 6pm most days which I take her to and pick up from also. It’s easily doable!

My H works from just after 9am until just after 6 and takes his lunch to coincide with the afternoon pick up.

So I am a partner in our business rather than employee but might be helpful to tell you how I do it in the weeks I'm home based, we have 5 daughters in 3 schools so share the pick up drop off between us / nanny.

School for us starts at 7.45 and ends at 4, 30 mins round trip.

Work 6 - 7am, then stop get the girls ready for 45mins, drop off and am home by 8.15, have breakfast or coffee. Start work again by 8.30 I then work straight through to 3.30 no breaks other than to make a drink etc. And that is 8hrs done, moat of the time I then do a couple of hours in the evening but if I decided not to by Friday that's 40hrs of work.

It is possible and some of my employees do similar, some probably work less hours than they are contracted however keep my clients happy and produce the outputs i need so its not an issue but if she isn't carrying out her duties regardless of hours sadly I would be letting her go.