Flexible working request denied, no alternative offered....where do I stand?

[CoolWasp]

I have a 5 month baby boy and am planning to return to work when he is 9 months. I also have a 3yr old.

I worked 4 days a week after dc1. I submitted a flexible working request last month and had a meeting a few days ago to discuss outcome: I had proposed dropping down to 2 days, which just got rejected, with no opportunity to discuss to see if we could make something work. I then asked about 3 days I was told no, that they wanted me to return 4 days, which is what I was doing anyway.

Im not upset that my 2 days got denied- it was ambitious asking for it in my line of work and their reasons were fair. Im more upset that there was no leeway, no discussion on maybe 3 days or compressed hours. I had even asked them in the meeting if they could suggest an alternative working pattern.

Feeling down about it. Wondering if I should appeal or leave it. Its hard to look for another job as this employer offers lots of perks and has always been flexible around nursery/school drop offs and pickup times.

I remember my flex working meeting during my first mat leave: I had proposed working 3 days and they had said no, but they suggested me doing 4 instead. I accepted. But this time, it felt there was no room for discussing.

Any advice appreciated. I thought appeals were for if people werent happy that their request was rejected. I understand why mine was rejected but I would have accepted 3 days tbh xxx

That's not flexible working tho. That's going part-time. If they feel it's a full time job, I don't think you can take it any further

Could you offer 4 days over 3 or slightly reduced hours over 3?

I think asking for two days set their minds at “No”.

Surely by asking for two days, you were asking to go part time? Is that what you mean rather than flexible working? - you wanted to be part time? I’m not sure I understand what you were wanting in this discussion.

I had a meeting with HR a few weeks ago, my first HR meeting during this mat leave. I stated I wanted to reduce my working hours. They told me to fill out a flexible working request form, which I did and then the outcome was that my request was rejected.

I was expecting some discussion around coming up with another working pattern, but they stated that they wanted me to work 4 days, as before.

I honestly think it's been a disservice to people with the whole 'LABOUR WILL ENSURE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO FLEXI WORK WHAT YOU DEMAND'!

I thought they had to back it up with valid reasons otherwise they can’t deny it?

Their reason was valid : that we have fast paced deadlines and working 2 days will leave too many gaps. I totally understand that. But we could have reached an agreement together, for 3 days or even 3.5 days.

At my company they will allow 4 days or 4 compressed into 3.5 but no less, otherwise it stops being flexible and becomes part time.

They can refuse it if they believe it will be detrimental to the needs of the business.

The 'valid reasons' are so vague as to be meaningless, eg 'detrimental impact on quality '

Anyone with half a brain can fit the refusal to one of the valid reason categories

But they said no to 3 days last time, surely their reasons will still be the same?

Is your 4 days currently full time on condensed hours? Or are you paid for 4 days?

Not condensed, I am paid for 4 days x

But this request is not for flexible working, it’s for (very) part time working which may not suit.

Can you offer to do your current 4 days but condensed hours in 3 days?

I think that asking to go part time is not the same as flexible working. My understanding of the latter is that the flex bit is working partly from home or working more hours on some days and less on the others. You have said yourself that you can understand the reasons why your employer wants you to work the 4 days. I don't think you have really got a leg to stand on. Asking for 2 days probably put their backs up too.

Yes, this is something I can consider. I dont know how to go about it. Would I appeal or just get in touch with HR and say I have an alternative proposition?

It felt like they were only happy on 4 full days in the meeting.

I know it doesn’t matter for the Flexible Working Request, but what are your reasons for wanting/needing to do 2 days a week?

Maybe it’s worth sitting down with HR and discussing that you’re flexible with hours/times/days/location. But you want/need X, Y, Z. You might be able to find a compromise.

If you work 4 days its because there is 4 days worth of work. This doesn't stop being the case because you want to work 2 days. For you to work 2 days they would have to recruit someone for the other 2 days. That was always very unlikely to be approved as it comes as a cost to the company. You could suggest compressing your 4 days into 3? But do you want to work 3 long days?

Also, if they stated the ‘gaps’ between days was their concern. You could propose 3 days but split at 2 full days and 2 half days. Or even 4 short days, which will be a godsend when your older DC starts school.

Assuming you don’t have a long commute you’d still get a decent amount of time with your DC on the half days.

Why on earth did you ask for 2 days when 3 was denied last time?

So why don't you ask whether you might be able to make something work over 3 or 3.5 days?

What about offering 5 short days - your 4 in 5, or 3.5 in 5? That way they have even fewer gaps.

If you originally started on 5 days a week and you’ve gone down to 4 after your first child, I imagine that it’s a matter of them not wanting your role to be cut down any further as there’s no-one else to pick up the slack.

I’m assuming they have had at least 2 years’ experience of you working a reduced 4-day week, so they will have a good idea of how it would impact the business if you went down to 3 or 2 days.

You could ask for compressed hours but I think 4 days into 3 would be tough with a baby and a preschooler!

I hope you manage to find a way to make it work

Thank you all for your ideas!

The meeting I had a few days ago ended on a 'have a think about it and appeal if you wish'

So I suppose an email suggesting alternative propositions would suffice? As opposed to appealing? Because I want to have a discussion about alternative arrangements.