Flexible working request denied, no alternative offered....where do I stand?

[CoolWasp]

I have a 5 month baby boy and am planning to return to work when he is 9 months. I also have a 3yr old.

I worked 4 days a week after dc1. I submitted a flexible working request last month and had a meeting a few days ago to discuss outcome: I had proposed dropping down to 2 days, which just got rejected, with no opportunity to discuss to see if we could make something work. I then asked about 3 days I was told no, that they wanted me to return 4 days, which is what I was doing anyway.

Im not upset that my 2 days got denied- it was ambitious asking for it in my line of work and their reasons were fair. Im more upset that there was no leeway, no discussion on maybe 3 days or compressed hours. I had even asked them in the meeting if they could suggest an alternative working pattern.

Feeling down about it. Wondering if I should appeal or leave it. Its hard to look for another job as this employer offers lots of perks and has always been flexible around nursery/school drop offs and pickup times.

I remember my flex working meeting during my first mat leave: I had proposed working 3 days and they had said no, but they suggested me doing 4 instead. I accepted. But this time, it felt there was no room for discussing.

Any advice appreciated. I thought appeals were for if people werent happy that their request was rejected. I understand why mine was rejected but I would have accepted 3 days tbh xxx

I am confused why you asked for 2 days a week, when it was almost guaranteed to be refused. It's a flexible working request, not a game of poker.

www.gov.uk/flexible-working/after-the-application

^ your employer should have discussed the request with you before denying it. If they haven't, then you can take them to tribunal

If there is 4 days worth of work to be done and you want to work 2 days (or 3) then unless you have come up with a way to double your efficiency, they would need to recruit someone else to do the remaining 2 days (or 1). There is a cost to recruit and employ someone else, so this gives them grounds to refuse on basis of cost, plus there are likely to be inefficiencies in handing over work. Recruiting someone for 1 or 2 days a week is likely to be harder than for a 3 or 4 day week or full time. So unless they have p/t staff wanting to pick up extra shifts this can be tricky.
If you want to appeal, you will have to tell them what advantages there are of splitting your role between you and another person - cover for annual leave, different skill sets and experience, anything else you can come up with...and/or reasons that things have changed because of, say improved tech, that mean you can somehow do 4 days work of work in 2 or 3....

Just so everyone knows

The request to amend hours js called a flexible working request - by law

The form is called a flexible working request form

That is why OP is referring to it as a FW request.

FW does not just mean 'flexible' hours - not in this case, anyway.

In hindsight you should have asked for 3 days. Two days is hardly employed. I think you could ask them to reconsider the 3 day request.

The problem is it costs more for a company to do this. Two lots of training. Two people to manage. My boss also reckons it costs more from a NI employer contribution pov though I’m not sure that’s true.

Yeah I’m not sure how it could cost more in employers NI because youd have two wages to take the tax free amount from first. Rather than one? So that doesn’t sound right.
Plus once someone is trained up (which depending on the job may not even be much) they may work out long term cheaper - covering for unexpected sickness and stuff too. I think companies can be short sighted. I mean if they don’t agree to a job share then often the result is the employee just leaves! And then they’d need to train an entirely new person anyway.

I think you’re being naive.
From your employers’s perspective, they think they are already being very accommodating: letting you work just 4 days/week and do nursery pickups etc.

Have they considered a job share? you then can work two days and the other three are covered by the job share partner.

I worked for almost 5 years in this setting and there were no issues with performance, colleagues and so on.

I like this.
Right now with them being in nursery, you pay for the whole day, but I can see how it would be of benefit when they start school.

Thanks x

@CoolWasp I was on 3 full days a week (Tue/Wed/Thur) after I had my daughter, then when she started school I requested to flex my hours across 4 days.

This means I work school hours 9am - 2.30pm on Mon/Tue/Wed, a full day on Thursday and have Fridays off, with a mix of home and office working.

I'm in a comms/PR role and I made the case that it was better for the org for me to be working on more consecutive days but for a shorter time - previously the Friday-Tues gap was too long for me to be not working and I missed a lot of time sensitive stuff (which I imagine is the same issue your employer is foreseeing). My boss thankfully agreed and I'm now a year in and it's working really well.

In your case, you will have to swallow not getting your full money's worth out of nursery and it will be more expensive as you'll likely have to pay for a full day whether you pick them up at 2pm or 5.30pm (unless your nursery offers half day sessions), but as others say it will be great for when they start school. I love that I can do school pick up most days and she goes to after-school club when I work my long day.

Good luck 👍

Just wondering what sector to you work in and is there an option to be transferred to another department or office in a part time role?

The reason I’m asking is in my last job (retail management) I remember a colleague who worked in another store for the same luxury brand in the same district as a concession manager came to join our team as she had requested to only work 2 days as part as a flexible work request and had a meeting with our area manager and HR. We happened to have a req open for a part time role (16 hours) anyway so our area manager offered that as an option and she took it. It did mean having to go from concession management to part times sales so it was a big drop in terms of responsibility, but she was happy to compromise this to work the hours that she wanted.

I think at the end of the day you need to be open to compromise and also level with them as well. Say that you really want to stay working for the company, but you also need to more present at home as well and that work life balance is something you really value and would appreciate if that would be willing to relook at your request to enable this, even if it means you having to take on a different role etc. At the end of the day you don’t have to agree to any of their suggestions if they don’t work for you, but I think it is worth a shot so at least you know you have tried everything you can to make it work.