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He raised his voice and said "LET. ME. FINISH"

115 replies

Yomuma · 15/10/2024 08:10

I have worked with his chap for a couple of years. We are at a similar level and have the same line manager.

I have had ongoing issues with him, as have numerous others. A few colleagues have come to me in tears over the way he has spoken to them (harshly and aggressively). I personally think he is borderline incompetent at his job (I have been in the company for 18 years so would like to think I can judge this). I keep raising it, but my line manager has just retired, the new one is only just getting up to speed and our HR partner has just left. So it is not getting much traction.

The last few days I have had a very specific challenge that I don't know how to deal with. Yesterday, on a call with a new client (around 8 of us in the teams meeting) he launched into a bit of a rant / reasons why we should do this or not do that (none of it correct / he had his facts wrong). I had some really valid points relating to what he was saying (answer to his issue / question). I tried to jump in by saying "ah, on that point..." to direct the conversation in a useful direction, at which point he leaned in to his camera, raised his voice and said (slowly) "LET...ME...FINISH". I just mumbled sorry and shut up. It was really awkward and I felt like I then couldn't contribute. By the time he had finished speaking, we were on to a new topic, and time was up so I never got to make my points. This or something similar has happened a few times. Last week on a meeting he said / shouted "LIPS STILL MOVING" when I tried to interject.

I am frustrated that I don't have a response to him or way of dealing with it, other than to just 'shut up' and do as I am told.

I'm really keen to know who you would deal with it, or what response I can give in the moment?

OP posts:
ItTook9Years · 17/10/2024 09:56

Haven’t RTFT yet, but what you walk by, you accept. The behaviour needs calling out by anyone that witnesses it. Ideally to him directly, if not, to his manager.

Yomuma · 17/10/2024 13:25

SheilaFentiman · 17/10/2024 07:40

For those saying “it’s very rude to interrupt” - have you ever been on a teams meeting with someone monologuing, not giving the normal pauses and not looking round to check body language?

If you are a good meeting participant then no one should have to interrupt you, because you should leave space for them.

Exactly this! But also, the people saying it is rude to interrupt ...I didn't interrupt him in that I didn't talk over him. I waited for a short pause and tried to jump in to politely pick up on a point he was making. I don't think interjecting is the same as interupting? Perhaps It was my wording that is confusing. I think it was fairly normal conversation etiquette - I was simply responding to something he said.
I find it strange because something I HATE is when I am speaking and give a view, but everyone sits silently, and nobody responds or interjects, because then it feels like either they aren't interested, or don't understand.
But with him, definitely a control thing. I think he knows I disagree with a lot of what he says and now he just shuts me down before I can say a word. Just wish i could find a way to stand up for myself without it being unprofessional or me being the bad guy.

OP posts:
catlover123456789 · 17/10/2024 14:25

SheilaFentiman · 17/10/2024 07:40

For those saying “it’s very rude to interrupt” - have you ever been on a teams meeting with someone monologuing, not giving the normal pauses and not looking round to check body language?

If you are a good meeting participant then no one should have to interrupt you, because you should leave space for them.

Yes. I have twice sat through this for more than 40 solid minutes, and when I tried to speak I was talked over. This is where 'Let me finish' is an appropriate response, although I am not sure I would do this on a client call.

catlover123456789 · 17/10/2024 14:30

Secradonugh · 17/10/2024 07:35

Because I do and there are a multitude of different personalities especially aspergers and autism and due to those people who are usually very controlled very easy to get along with, we end up getting other 'demanding' personality types. Due to poor team leadership the demanding personalities are sometimes seen by the managers with no ND training, as 'autistic' and the bullying type are never brought to account. Hence why I do bring them to account myself. It's unfair to all the truelly mild to very autistic people we employ to be tarred with the same brush as the brash and opinionated. Most engineers also will not argue back because again their personality traits are usually withdrawing from confrontation and not understanding why someone is being confrontational.

I knew autism would be mentioned as a possibility here! Autism is not an excuse for rudeness. We all have personality traits that are not desirable in the workplace, a good manager will guide the employee and a good employee will take on board comments and learn and adapt. This is why experience of working with different people and different levels is a skillset that's developed over time. If someone on my team was rude to a customer, they would no longer be allowed to speak on customer calls until they had shown correction of their behaviour, end of.
OP - your manager needs to step up here.

melonwalruswrestling · 17/10/2024 17:46

Is there any chance these are internal clients?

Clutching at straws here - it's not clear to me why your manager isn't coming down hard.

Secradonugh · 17/10/2024 18:25

melonwalruswrestling · 17/10/2024 08:26

I work in tech. I don't believe that this person would be misunderstood to be autistic. If you have no awareness of what autism is, you wouldn't have that on your radar at all. The reality is a lot of managers are not great at managing difficult people - that's both in tech and outside tech.

Whilst I understand the point you're trying to make:

(1) There is no longer a distinction between Aspergers and Autism and a lot of autistic people find the term 'Aspergers' offensive (not all) because of who Hans Asperger was.
(2) Suggesting that there is such a thing as 'mild' autism is also offensive to a lot (not all) of autistic people.

Just the idea that this type of personality might be equated to autism is very offensive. Being autistic does NOT make you an arsehole (but some autistic people are arseholes, because autistic people are (shock horror) people). Being autistic can sometimes mean you struggle to understand the normal flow of a conversation, but that would normally be something that manifests as not knowing when it is appropriate to speak (i.e. when it would or wouldn't be considered to be 'interrupting'), rather than getting upset if someone interrupts you.

Autistic people also aren't "usually very controlled very easy to get along with". They are all different. There's no 'usually' about autistic people (or non-autistic people for that matter) - people are people. I don't even know what you're trying to get at with your reference to 'controlled' to be honest. If you mean that autistic people spend their lives having to suppress their autistic traits to be able to progress/be taken seriously in the workplace, then you're correct but equally not everyone is able (or willing) to be 'controlled' in this way.

Unfortunately you've highlighted the big difference of what I see and what you see in our day to day lives. Our managers literally give an uneducated guess of a diagnosis and use it as a reason not to tell off some of my team colleagues.
I completely agree with you about aspergers, it became a buzz word but that buzz word has stuck in my company because its seen as a good thing due to the higher than average iq.
However I would disagree with people who are diagnosed autistic are more or less effected by it, I.e. more indicators of autism or perhaps they have better techniques to cope.
'Usually' was used in my response in the 'on average' meaning and yes 'controlled' was in the sense of knowing that they want to be treated equally and so to achieve that they try to control their natural reactions. Again like I said this is down to unskilled managers.

melonwalruswrestling · 17/10/2024 18:29

@Secradonugh you seem to have very definitive opinions on autism. What is your background for these? I'm confused because you say you work in tech so presumably aren't a medical professional, and are mentioning autistic people in the third person, which implies you're not autistic yourself.

Secradonugh · 17/10/2024 18:35

catlover123456789 · 17/10/2024 14:30

I knew autism would be mentioned as a possibility here! Autism is not an excuse for rudeness. We all have personality traits that are not desirable in the workplace, a good manager will guide the employee and a good employee will take on board comments and learn and adapt. This is why experience of working with different people and different levels is a skillset that's developed over time. If someone on my team was rude to a customer, they would no longer be allowed to speak on customer calls until they had shown correction of their behaviour, end of.
OP - your manager needs to step up here.

At no point did I say that he was autistic. I said he was a demanding personality type and they get away with it because poor management doesn't understand the difference. Poor management excuses them, poor management doesn't want to rock the boat. Also that most of us in IT don't like it when those demanding types start yelling as we don't know what to do so we keep quiet.

LottieMary · 17/10/2024 18:41

Yomuma · 15/10/2024 08:28

No I have not had the feedback from anyone else that in interrupt them, if anything I am told I need to speak up more / stop being so polite / just interject if I have something to say, because I struggle to get my point across sometimes (lack confidence) so this is a totally new thing to me...which is probably why I am struggling to know how to deal with it !

I can’t believe so many people are suggesting that your interruption the way you have framed/phrased it, was ru- it’s a perfectly normal function of conversation but there is also a tendency linguistically for men to hold the floor, and not enable others to enter that conversation. His response to you is very unprofessional, even aggressive.

id definitely record meetings, draw it to the attention of your LM regarding client facing (and staff interpersonal) relationships, with a time stamp they can look at. However MAYBE some pps have valid points re teams, so it’s worth getting a policy or reminder in place about hands up for interruptions as the spoken kind can be much more difficult in a tech driven conversation.

Secradonugh · 17/10/2024 18:52

melonwalruswrestling · 17/10/2024 18:29

@Secradonugh you seem to have very definitive opinions on autism. What is your background for these? I'm confused because you say you work in tech so presumably aren't a medical professional, and are mentioning autistic people in the third person, which implies you're not autistic yourself.

Edited

Of course. I work for a big tech firm. I am defined autistic from a clinical psychologist. However I believe that I am only 'just' autistic which I know may offend others but I have been taught that it is a scale, and so that's the terminology I use. I am on various groups at work for mental health care, I've done quite a bit of learning through various agencies thanks to being on those groups. Bupa, NHS, Aviva so far, have put together courses for us, as I'm sure they do for other mental health first aiders. These are quite basic and apart from a little certificate there is nothing official but it's a starter and mainly to assess how the person who is struggling needs to get further help. It was a starter to help me down this path that peaked my interest. I am in counselling once a week and have a psychologist once evey 6 months. I end up kind of surrounded by it as part of my job as some of my colleagues struggle with not just autism but depression, anxiety etc.. and they contact me or our team of helpers.

melonwalruswrestling · 17/10/2024 19:08

Thanks for clarifying. Proves my point really on how autistic people are people and are all different! I don't want to derail the OP's thread but I also in big tech and the experience you describe is not anything like the experience at my company (or perhaps better to say my part of my company because these companies are massive). It's very interesting.

Secradonugh · 17/10/2024 19:12

melonwalruswrestling · 17/10/2024 19:08

Thanks for clarifying. Proves my point really on how autistic people are people and are all different! I don't want to derail the OP's thread but I also in big tech and the experience you describe is not anything like the experience at my company (or perhaps better to say my part of my company because these companies are massive). It's very interesting.

I hope it's not the same company! But agree let's not derail the thread. The guy was / is a sick and should never have said that.

nopenotplaying · 17/10/2024 19:21

Do you not use the hands up function on teams?

whiteroseredrose · 17/10/2024 19:21

'Let me finish'

'Not if you are giving out incorrect information.'

pineapplesundae · 21/10/2024 00:04

I wouldn’t do this in front of a client. Maybe speak with him in private.

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