He raised his voice and said "LET. ME. FINISH"

[Yomuma]

I have worked with his chap for a couple of years. We are at a similar level and have the same line manager.

I have had ongoing issues with him, as have numerous others. A few colleagues have come to me in tears over the way he has spoken to them (harshly and aggressively). I personally think he is borderline incompetent at his job (I have been in the company for 18 years so would like to think I can judge this). I keep raising it, but my line manager has just retired, the new one is only just getting up to speed and our HR partner has just left. So it is not getting much traction.

The last few days I have had a very specific challenge that I don't know how to deal with. Yesterday, on a call with a new client (around 8 of us in the teams meeting) he launched into a bit of a rant / reasons why we should do this or not do that (none of it correct / he had his facts wrong). I had some really valid points relating to what he was saying (answer to his issue / question). I tried to jump in by saying "ah, on that point..." to direct the conversation in a useful direction, at which point he leaned in to his camera, raised his voice and said (slowly) "LET...ME...FINISH". I just mumbled sorry and shut up. It was really awkward and I felt like I then couldn't contribute. By the time he had finished speaking, we were on to a new topic, and time was up so I never got to make my points. This or something similar has happened a few times. Last week on a meeting he said / shouted "LIPS STILL MOVING" when I tried to interject.

I am frustrated that I don't have a response to him or way of dealing with it, other than to just 'shut up' and do as I am told.

I'm really keen to know who you would deal with it, or what response I can give in the moment?

There’s so many posts with sarky and snappy replies which are fantastic BUT Mr Mouth may attempt to raise a grievance against OP and use these remarks against her

I have just witnessed this happen in my own workplace and it was horrendous. Our Mr Mouth had loads of evidence of people “bullying” him but nobody could prove he was inappropriate and unprofessional as it was all over teams (verbally).

In the end, the person who was moved teams by HR was the one who tried to resolve the issues and make the wider team happier as everyone was frightened and fed up of Mr Mouth.

He sits there, untouchable with his attitude and lack of knowledge which is still a huge problem. He is awful when client facing.

(I’m currently job hunting)

I think Teams has an add-on which records the meeting for the purpose of taking minutes later? This might be helpful for evidence, OP and @Williamborris

Or if the recording of the meeting calms down the mouthy guy, then that also achieves the goal!

1. use 'raise hand' function
2. type your response in the chat
3. speak to the meeting chair. If there isn't one volunteer to do it yourself.
4. email his line manager afterwards with feedback.

This

UPDATE: This morning we had a teams meeting with the same client, and this individual once again decided to go off on a rant.

Only this time, it was aimed the client, telling him he has done X,Y,Z wrong and he should have done this that and the other (this client has successfully launched a multi million pound brand across multiple markets, the rant was both rude, inaccurate and bizarre).

The client politely laughed it off in the meeting, but afterwards 2 things happened:

1. I raised it with our line manager (who was also in the meeting), who agreed his behaviour was unacceptable and he said he is a "complete nightmare". Apparently "steps will be taken". He doesn't want to have to go down the formal route but will if he has to

1. This afternoon the client contacted a member of the team and said he thought this individual was both "naive and selfish". Not a great first impression

I just hope this is enough to make him realise he needs to shut up and think before he speaks!

Wow! What an awful person he is

How on earth did your line manager not mute this guy and then boot him out of the meeting when the rant started? "Oh dear, technical problems at Dodgy Dave's end, anyway, let's continue".

The fact that the line manager 'doesn't want to go down the formal route' speaks volumes. This is surely textbook misconduct which requires a formal response. If I were the client, I would have been straight on to the most senior person in the organisation I could get hold of to ask for him to be removed at once from the account. I would certainly be considering whether I wanted to do business with your company.

Your line manager wasn't up to the task of dealing with this whilst on the actual call, and doesn't seem up to dealing with it now either. I sincerely hope for your sake that he does take this guy to task properly, and there's never a repeat of this.

Ugh. Sounds like you're dealing with a toxic colleague.

I've worked with these windbags who love the sound of their own voice and think they're more important than anybody else in the room, and the only way to actually get a word in (or ensure others do) is to interject at the most opportune moment you can pick. Interrupting isn't good manners, but it's also bad manners and unprofessional to go on and on and take up all the time and space and exclude others' contributions, to be rude to clients and colleagues, and to give clients inaccurate or out of date information.

I hope your line manager grows a pair and deals with him, whether informally, formally or whatever needs to happen.

It seems like your line manager is intimidated by him when he should be horrified by him mouthing off at a client like that and definitely be taking formal steps to deal with him before he loses contracts for the company. A bit of quiet colouring in to do in the corner at the very least.

From your description, he's been like this for years and made staff cry but absolutely nothing has been done about it. No one has challenged his behaviour, no complaints have been made, no manager has spoken to him.

If his line manager was ignoring serious behavioural problems, was there no other person to approach such as another manager or HR?If he's incompetent there is surely a plethora of evidence such as emails and witnesses. There must have been client complaints if he's giving out incorrect information.

Did no one else notice that he was giving factually incorrect information? I'm surprised your manager said nothing.

I wouldn't interrupt him again, next time I'd say immediately he's finished,"Before we move on I have a couple of points." Or something to that effect.

This is progress. Next meeting, IN ADVANCE your team agrees the agenda, who says what and when, identify outcomes you want, and a chair to steer the course.

He is damaging your team internally and antagonising the client.

Words to avoid: actually … just … can I quickly .. and anything hyperbolic like ooh bit of a nerve touched there Dave. You need 2-3 team members to support the chair in keeping the agenda front and centre, without using weak words.

Can you just let people know there is no point you attending these meetings as you are prevented from speaking and just don't go to them?

This is not enough op. He won’t realise. You should supply your manager with written notes with date and event and support them to take the formal route before you start losing staff and clients. it is terrible management to try to do anything other than take the formal route with toxic people.

Um… so you interrupted him? And didn’t allow him to finish his point?

Why did you think that your voice was more important than his, at that point?

Those saying interrupting is rude are being very black and white. If someone is saying a whole load of wrong stuff in front of a client it’s much better to try to stop them than to leave them to dig a bigger hole.

Accuracy of information. Meetings with clients aren't supposed to be for someone to misinform them.

As ever, I suspect some posters haven't read the OP's update, which describes how dickhead guy has comprehensively shot himself in the foot and vindicated all the OP's concerns.

@Yomuma fantastic update !!!

Fantastic that the actual client complained , bet your boss will listen to this one 😉

There was this guy who kept putting me down when all was calm and I wasn't expecting it or ready to come back at him. He reminded me of past bullying, and I did not trust my spontaneous responses. I rehearsed an all-purpose statement: Don't ever speak to me like that again.

When I got the opportunity, I went up to him in person, without any audience (thinking 'I am the icy Witch of the North'), fixed him with a wide-eyed glare (also well rehearsed) and said this as fiercely as I could. To my surprise, he was devastated.

I never had any more trouble from him.

Delighted client complained, but I agree with Codlingmoths that you need to follow it up with a comprehensive complaint.

Aside from his disrespect of you (which needs addressing), bear in mind that if junior colleagues have come to you upset about the way he has/is treating them, as a Manager at the same level ad this arsehole, you have a duty of care. It sounds like bullying (of them) and needs addressing.

I had a situation where it came to my attention that a colleague (same management level) had been bullying her Secretary. I was surprised because the colleague always seemed really decent. Secretaries there often helped out each other and the one in question had done lots for me over the years. They shared an Office that we were all in and out of regularly, so I knew this Secretary well and knew. The complaint was genuine. I also took some feedback from the other secretaries that confirmed the worst. I spoke privately to my colleague telling her what I had been told and that the Secretary in question had been found in tears. I told her that I felt I had a duty to report all of the information to her Manager, but that I had wanted to let her know first. This sounds like a situation where you should do the same. The junior staff have a much bigger problem than you.

"By the time he had finished speaking, we were on to a new topic, and time was up so I never got to make my points."

To everyone saying OP interrupted him and that was rude, actually, he's monologuing (and talking shit) and needs derailing and correcting. Sometimes interrupting is your only option, especially if your colleague is misinforming a client.

OP, next time he tries this don't mumble and apology, say firmly 'excuse me? Don't speak to me like that'

Bide your time. Let him expound until he’s finished. At every meeting I’ve ever been to the chair will always ask if there is anything else before closing. That’s when you have your say and can use “Let me finish” if her interrupts. If the meetings aren’t recorded, have a note taker.

The people pontificating about things they clearly don't understand when the literal expert in the meeting has to interrupt to explain that they are a complete numpty who shouldn't be allowed near a working environment that it actually works <this> way and the things they're ranting about aren't even happening in the first place?

Yeah, they have to be interrupted, especially when they're at the point of saying something legally dodgy.

Worse case scenario, be best buddies with whoever is taking the minutes so they transcribe the bollocks including the way he's just spoken to somebody;

7.0 Flangewarbler Roll-out Discussion (Discussion transcribed verbatim)

This requires somebody with a secure role and no more shits to give, though.

Back up a little: if he is as incompetent and rude as you claim, why not bide your time and let him hang himself? Do your company's clients never raise concerns about his inability to work effectively or to stay within the rules of normal workplace etiquette? You wrote that you kept raising the matter with your former line-manager yet nothing was done. That person obviously either didn't share your view or was not an effective manager. Proceed with caution and make sure this bloke does not become a hobby horse that will end up bucking you off its back and into the mire. That said, you and your colleages are protected by employment law and that law obtains regardless of whether or not the current line-manager is up to speed or the HR post is vacant. If you feel you have been abused then start a formal complaint.