Mums forced into office by big UK company?

[MM90]

I work for a big, well-known company. The bosses are considering plans to force all colleagues to come to the office 3 days a week. They are thinking about checking our turnstile data individually and disciplining anyone who doesn’t come in for 3 days every week, whether they need to be there or not. I thought this was the 21st century where working women have the chance to create a sensible work / life balance so long as they perform in their job. My line manager gave me a great performance rating during Covid. I have two children under 5 and no family nearby. Any thoughts on this?

I agree as someone who has worked from home for 20 years. It is very different once you have school aged children but I'm sure most people with very young children use childcare if working regardless of whether at home or the office.

OP is claiming that she has children under 5 though so if that is true she would be abusing working from home if she didn't have childcare. It's pretty obviously just goady thread to claim that this is what everyone else who works from home is doing.

Productivity in the UK is around 16% below the US and Germany Not sure 16% is that bad considering it’s the US

Tbf you shouldn't be looking after your children while employed to work

The UK had productivity issues looooong before the big increase in remote working.

Is flexible working written into your contract? If not, and your employer wants you to start attending a certain amount of days, then you don't really have a leg to stand on.

I’ve gone from loving WFH to hating it, it means all the experienced staff work from home and we have no interaction and there isn’t the collaboration we used to have, the staff in the office are all young and aren’t learning how to behave in an office because there’s no one there to show them. Managers aren’t there to support in the way they are when you’re all together in an office.

This.

I go into the office 1 day a week, my partner does 2-3 days and we avoid going in on the same day. We couldn't do 5 days. We have fulltime childcare from 8am-5.15pm but if our office days were increased and we had to be in on the same day this would have to increase to 7.30-6.30 (way too long) and we still wouldn't get a full day's work in at the office because the commute is over 90 minutes.

We also wouldn't put ourselves in the position of both being in the office on the same day because frankly the trains can't be relied on and if we were stuck in London there would be no-one to collect our child. Not to mention any emergencies - one time we were in the office on the same day and I had to come back and take my child to hospital and it took me the best part of 2.5 hours to get back and get them there. Thankfully it wasn't serious.

Presumably your children are in full time childcare anyway, so doesn't make a massive amount of difference? If not, I'm not surprised your employer is insisting on people coming in.....

My line manager gave me a great performance rating during Covid.

Expectations were different in 2020 and 2021. What have your ratings been in 2022 and 2023?

OP I’m really sympathetic to you.

But it’s not unreasonable of the company. Even the civil service has gone back to 3 days a week in the office. And 60/40 flexible working is pretty good - 40% at home.

There are many professional and career advantages to working hybrid and having office time. And obviously advantages for the company. But it’s time for you to decide what’s feasible for you, put in a flexible working request.

I do recommend you make a good business case re talent development and retention, especially of women - it’s certainly worth a pitch!

Also just read the above re commuting costs etc. You had them pre covid, this is just a return to normality.....

There's very few full time WFH jobs around these days

I have three kids, no family to help and have to go to work every day. Working in a hospital. That is the job. Plenty of mothers have jobs that involve going out to work and manage.

If that is the job and that is what your company wants then there it is. You are already pretty privileged working from home two days.

Yes, exactly. I moved from open plan, everyone in five days in the financial services, to academia with everyone in their own offices or these days mostly WFH. There are huge advantages to that personally but I do think the work and the team suffer.

My work have already done this but 4 days a week (I don't think they actually monitor this though). It works fine. I have a job where it is commutable from home and still be able to pick up and drop off at the right times for childcare. I wouldn't take a job or do hours that didn't suit this as there is always the just in case element. We don't have flexibly working or wfh contracts so it can be changed at any moment really.

On my WFH days I spend the hour not commuting getting house bits sorted - I still drop the kids off and pick them up at the same time. I don't WFH to do childcare. I have more flexibility in the summer as school holiday clubs have different hours etc but standard is 4 office days a week now.

It wouldn't make any difference to me if I had to be in the office every day again bar being a bit busier at home.

I think it applies to everybody, not just mums as your thread title seems to imply.

Pre-covid office jobs were exactly that. Some people have taken the piss with home working (as referenced in numerous threads on here) and companies wish to see if employees are more productive in the office (I absolutely am not!).

When I had children under 5 with nearest family 200 miles away we used a nursery. Either parent took leave for dc sickness when needed. When they were older a childminder until school actually started offering wrap around care.

3 days a week for a 5 day working week isn't that bad imo. If you're not happy look for another fully home based job.

If you were not employed on a WFH contract then I think fair enough.

I have always been massively irritated that politically childcare is viewed as a women's issue, it’s like we do it to ourselves sometimes. It’s a parents issue.

It's interesting the number of people who've assumed this would be OP going back to a job she did in an office during covid. There's nothing to say that at all. All we know is that OP worked for this organisation during covid, and plenty of people changed jobs in 2020 and 2021.

I think it’s backward thinking.

It's not necessarily a return to normality though, you're assuming everyone is in the same place of work they were pre-covid.

Many companies during Covid and after started looking further afield for the best staff on the understanding those staff wouldn't have to be in the office often. This often isn't written into contracts as many places won't commit themself instead preferring to have the same hybrid clause across all contracts without specific details as to what this means.

When I looked for my current place of work, I looked specifically for a role that supported my preferred working arrangements and would not have taken a job that didn't. If they expected me to change that (legally they could as its not contractual) I wouldn't be very happy about it, I'd resist it and, if there was no flexibility, I'd look for something else.

You can't WFH and look after two preschoolers simultaneously, not properly anyway.

Vote with your feet and leave- get a new fully remote job where your working fully remote is explicitly stated in your contract.

I don't understand the problem unless your looking after your children while working, which if that's the case I'm on your bosses side if that's not the case and their in childcare during your working hours then why does it matter where you are.

If you are using WFH to also look after your children, your employer is right to ensure you are working correctly and in the office if they deem you and others not working when you should. If you’ve got school run problems then you need to look at wrap around care or cutting your hours. Lots of us have to.

Until before Covid, an office job meant working from an office 5 days a week.

Unless your contract is on a WFH basis, you would not be entitled to WFH all or part of the time.

I am also guessing that any employer reading this thread would be thinking what proportion of a WFH day of a young parent would be devoted to work, if this is also the child-care arrangement.

The patriarchy bites back, with return to the office orders backed by literally no evidence base. Happening all over, makes little sense. Nurserys near us have reduced hours and increased fees so it's now incredibly difficult to manage work and pick up times. But hey ho, the execs paid 7 figure total comp packages who can afford all the childcare etc have spoken. Maddening. I just can't understand why so many people defend it!