Both parents commuting to London with young children

[Corilee2806]

I’m on a career break which was meant to be some time to think and work out what to do but I’m more confused than ever!

Civil servant in Westminster for 10 years, however my commute is nearly 2 hours door to door from just outside London. I work 3 days and have mostly got by going in 1 day a week for the last 2 years. However now with the new 60% attendance I’ll be expected to go in 2 days a week and it sounds like this will be enforced ie action taken if not compliant.

My children are 5 and 3 and we don’t use nursery - from September (when I’ll poss be back at work) we’re relying on school wrap around care 2 days a week and grandparents but even then, with the length of the commute it will be a struggle. I’ll be with my son on the other 2 days as he is only doing preschool part time so spreading my hours not an option.

My husband has a full on job, senior role so has to commute to London most days, often out 12 hours. We can live on just his salary pretty easily but I didn’t want this career break to become permanent.

The obvious solution is find a job locally but very limited part time options round here and I don’t want to work full time - and I feel quite pigeon holed as a civil servant.

I feel like all I can do is keep commuting to London one day a week and hope for the best but it’s not ideal. I know 2 days doesn’t sound a lot but by the time you factor in 13 weeks of school hols, very unreliable train service and constant child illness it just doesn’t work…

why am I finding this so hard to find a solution?!

Most people I know who've done this usually staggered their hours so one went into work early whilst the other dropped off, then the first one finished earlier and picked up, whilst the second finished later.

Could your DH move his working hours around once or twice a week like this?

Move closer into London? Or even into London?

Is there any reason why you don't hire a nanny (or au pair, depending in how much childcare you need), even for the interim period till your youngest starts school, and maybe reassess then?
I would advise against rushing into curtailing/stopping your career - it's harder to get back in (speaking from bitter experience!).

We are settled where we are with school etc, established friends and family so moving isn’t an option, didn’t really foresee some of these issues when we settled a decade ago unfortunately!

if we’d been in the financial position a few years back when the kids were really little I think we would have gone for a nanny but it wasn’t an option then, and now I wonder if worth it for only morning and evening? Is there such a thing as before/after school nanny? Worth saying I’ve looked into childminders but rare as hens teeth round here. its trying to work out what our plan is for the longer term future really when both kids in school, need ferrying to clubs, play dates etc which is certainly already the case for my 5 year old, I could try and squeeze it all into my 2 days off but will be very busy!

It’s difficult, I’m a CS too, and a single parent. I do have a workplace adjustment and have negotiated 40% attendance. I also have a ‘carers passport’. I’ve just got a new role in a new dept and was so worried but they’re being far more amendable than I thought they’d be.

I would say, a nanny is a good answer. This has massively taken the strain off me.

different depts are also taking their approach to the 60% differently - dfe and Dhsc seem to be a bit more flexible, for example. And I do wonder how things will pan out in the end… so I wouldn’t make any big career decisions just yet. In my dept they plan to only review attendance on a quarterly basis, and it’s between you and your line manager. It’s only if your attitude is poor (eg actively avoiding the office) that it would become a performance issue. Plus stakeholder visits, annual leave etc are considered. So if you use your a/l in a clever way, you could get round things to an extent. and no one will count days you have to be home because of poorly kids! Unless you’re at cab office or HMT perhaps 😶

if you’re already at 60% FTE that will mean you could do alternate weeks one day in the office, then two.

We tried the staggered hours approach when we just had our DD, and it sort of worked but still caught short by the trains messing up a lot. I’d have to get to work for 7 to leave early which means pre 5 get up! Hideous but maybe ok if only once a week. We got in a bad situation where we both had to drop the kids off at breakfast club due to various struggles but that just isn’t sustainable- has to be one so the other can be on the train at the crack of dawn.

Ps I used Koru kids to get an after school nanny, and the 60% is days, not hours, so you could leave after kids drop off (I have to, but can work on the train)

We alternated, but the trains used to be much better.

could your DH wfh one of the days you are in and do the drop off the other? Then you are completely free of worry one of the days and can go in early the other

I'd move closer

Your commute is crazy if your dh is also out of the house 12 hours a day. Tbh I’m not even sure how you’ve managed it one day a week. What time do you leave in the morning and get home at night? If moving house isn’t an option, one of you needs to find another job. You’re find a solution hard to come by because there isn’t one really unless one of you is willing to change job.

good point @SheilaFentiman - if he takes a hit on one day of the week that could work. Don’t scarifie the safety of the CS if you can help it!

People I know with a big commute took dc with them and used a nursery near work rather than home. You end up commuting with dc but then you get quality time reading etc it’s exhausting but parenthood is. Other option would be a nanny.

@Levithecat thanks for your perspective, really helpful! Feeling a bit out of the loop from my department as have been off for two months already. Feel like I’m running away from the issues! I have looked into reasonable adjustments etc and know other parents who have but think I’d be approved for this which I understand, basically my reasoning is I live too far away and can’t get my shit together in the morning which isn’t likely to be taken seriously!

I hope in time things will change and this will all die down a bit as a lot of people feel they have to make big decisions about their future in the CS and I hope that there is a compromise somewhere. It sounds like it will be quite strictly monitored in my department but in reality - how much can they enforce?!

I do struggle though in reality with even one day a week, winter was awful and although my DH tries to help I was often picking up the pieces at home. I remember starting an intro call with my new director and my son walking in covered in sick! But like you say this is reality for everyone with young kids and you’d hope there’d be understanding.

my husbands job is very inflexible compared to mine but he wants to help and I know if I said things have to change as I’m not prepared to sacrifice my career he’d try to do what he could. Unfortunately as he’s very senior things often change unpredictably. On days when it’s been his pick up he’s often been late.

moving closer to London would make sense but love where we live and the school and community! I honestly don’t know how I’ve been doing the commute as it is - hence the career break which is more due to burn out than a choice…

The CS is very flexible but towards the end when I reached breaking point I often wasn’t arriving til after 10 at my desk and had to leave by 4. But had to work an 8 hour day. Meant to log in the evenings but rarely managed it. The work from home days were so much easier and more productive.

I promise it will get a bit easier as your children get bigger, but I know how stressful it all is. I did think about leaving the CS when it was announced - it would be awful if they lost good people (probably working mums!) because of the policy.

Another vote for moving while your DC are still so young. You're both commuting in the same direction so it's a no brainer. You also may want to go back to FT sooner or later and where will you be then?

You'll be surprised at what sort of childcare people are happy to provide if you pay enough!
When I went back to work after DC2 and DH and I were both in London and getting back for 6pm nursery pick up was just impossible, we had someone pick the DC up from nursery at 5pm and look after then until 7. One of us was usually home by 6.30 but we had the flexibility if we missed the train or there were other delays. Her job spec was essentially to keep the DC alive and give them some toast. As it was, she took them to the park and did all sorts with them whilst also making sure that they were bathed and in their PJs by the time we got home at 6.30. It was brilliant. With enough notice, she was also happy to stay & babysit for the evening too.
Then we had a childminder for a few years who did a similar slot. It worked for her as her other mindees left by 5pm and her own DC were older so not home until 6.30 when we collected them.
Then we had an after school nanny. She was superb. Cooked tea, sorted out their bags, took their to clubs and did various errands.
Now both DC are teens and doing umpteen sports clubs which clash so we have a lady in her 50s whose DC have left home essentially acting as a taxi driver for us as I can't be in two places at once.
All of these have been found via childcare.co.uk and local FB pages

I'd look for a hybrid or remote job in the charity sector instead. You've got a great set of skills that would transfer well in the charity sector. The Charity sector can be much more flexible and Family friendly than your current field.

https://www.charityjob.co.uk/jobs

I would get a nanny/housekeeper for the 2 days you’re in the office and stick with wraparound care for your wfh days. On nanny days this gives you flexibility if trains are awful or you need to stay late (will obviously need to be agreed with nanny), nanny is emergency contact in case of sickness, no need to worry about days off for minor bugs. Might seem expensive having a nanny whilst children are at school/nursery but nanny/housekeeper could replace your cleaner (summing you have one) & do some batch cooking/laundry to take pressure off on your other days.

we both commuted similar times and lasted 8 months before it all fell apart after a winter of constant coughs & colds, delayed trains, stressful phone calls between us negotiating who’s meeting was more important - you get the idea! If you earn good money then this is the one time you don’t scrimp - pay a nanny well , outline what’s expected of them ad they will make your life so much easier.

We both commute 90mins with same age children & I love it! I do 3 days a week - two in London & two mornings from home. We started off trying to get back for pickups but between tube, train & drive it was stressful. Now DH wfh one fixed day and does pickup from afterschool club/ nursery, the other day I am in London our babysitter collects DC, takes them home & feeds them & puts them to bed. It’s bliss to have two days in London and also to be able to collect my 5yr old from school at 3:15 3 days a week. DH is very senior like your Dh, initially was unsure he could commit to wfh and doing tea/ bed on a fixed day, but now it’s a fixed part of his week everyone respects it & he and the DC look forward to it. I wanted to add a positive story (so far) it can work ime. However I absolutely love London hence why it’s unequivocally worth the effort for me - would you enjoy it if the logistics work out, or would you prefer to be closer to home?

I'd also look to moving within an hours commute of London, depending on your budget try zones 4-6. You'll usually get more house for your money, better schools and greener spaces.

In your situation I would put your DS in for more preschool days or find a nursery instead, and already your hours. I don’t think 3 full length days plus commute 2 x a week with your DH in London too is workable with the pick ups, different settings and emergency pick ups when sick.

Are there any CS departments that operate closer to you? I don’t know which direction you are outside of London but would it be easier to commute to somewhere like Croydon, Hounslow etc as there are some departments that operate from those locations? And if so, start looking for internal opportunities you could apply for that work out of those areas.

Also a friend of mine is in the CS and used to live in one of those places, and sometimes if she didn’t want to go into the Westminster office she’d hotdesk from another CS location. I don’t know what the new rules are but would that count as being in the office or not for the purposes of the 60%?

Can you work shorter hours over more days? Shorter hours on two days you commute, plus a longer day at home?

I’d also say, play dates and clubs should take a hit if you’re both working and commuting. You can only arrange those on days you’re not working really, or weekend days.

Think a bit longer term too. Is there anything interesting you could do nearer home? Do a bit of research, what companies are out there. Even somewhere with a shorter commute. Or something you could retrain in?

So many helpful suggestions here, thanks everyone! Lots of things I’ve already thought of and also some different ideas - I think I need to approach the whole thing differently. I know I need to compromise somewhere as you can’t have everything so I need to figure out what’s important or most important. For me it’s being able to spend as much time with the children while little and keep my hand in my career whether that’s CS long term or something else. Only 18 months til they’re both in school so it’s not long really. I have some ideas about retraining and do keep an eye on local employment options. No CS offices near here sadly! Shorter hours over more days will definitely be possible in the longer term. But I’ve realised the way we were trying to do it definitely wasn’t sustainable!

I like the idea of an after school nanny, know a few people who do that so something to look into.