"Do you work"?

[ShiftLD]

I was a lawyer in my past life before kids and used to work from 8am to 8pm, some days more. Now, because of many circumstances, I'm at the moment taking care of the house and my husband is the one working long hours. That's our arrangement.

Nowadays I work even more hours than before and non-stop. Besides being the housekeeper, kids and hub PA, official buyer of anything needed, I admin a small Etsy store, our Ebay store for used items, manage ours savings...

I feel so humiliated when I don't have an answer to the question "Do you work?". What should I answer?

I totally understand your feelings OP. Unfortunately society today does not see the value of SAHP's, so the question, 'Do you work?' can feel loaded. Having been a 'career woman' I made the decision early on that I wanted to be present for my children and would take a career break to do so. I will never regret the time spent with them and even though they are now at school, I still love the flexibility of being at home. I look forward to school holidays, plan lots of after school activities, don't stress about them being home with illness, get everything done in the day so free at night and weekends, cook from scratch every night (with my DC) and volunteer in something I enjoy. I see the benefits of all these things in my children and know it's the right choice for our family, but I still hate, 'Do you work?' because as soon as I say no, assumptions and judgements are made (and seen every day on MN). I just remind myself that what other people think of me is none of my business!

People ask you what you do to see if you have anything in common you can talk about. I don't doubt there are tremendous snobs around (see the recent "privately educated children are more well-rounded" nonsense thread) and I've met a few myself but I would ask it to find out what people do with themselves for most of the week- paid work or not! After all, work is quite a large part of most people's lives. And if they don't work that probably sparks an even more interesting conversation.

@Alwayslookonthebrightside1 and @Wheresthescissors You've made me think again. I was wrong when I said rude and I'm sure many people are just interested and making conversation. Some people do want to categorize though and treat people differently based on the response.

I now find talking to snobs quite fun and try to find out what makes them tick.

Quite a few were working class two generations ago and often from The North (shock horror) and are embarrassed about their ancestors, and that they might not be as posh as people think.

Whereas I may come across as posh to some people but make no bones about my very ordinary background and do not hide my accent, and other people can't get that at all, as they are so desperately trying to be someone else to fit in.

I remember having a casual chat with some other young associates when I was one myself and one guy was from the same part of the world as me. When I told him where I grew up he laughed and said "Oh my god, that's such a rough area." I replied "It's definitely a working class area, I wouldn't say it was rough," but was totally unabashed, and he was trying to make me embarrassed that I had disclosed where I was from and that I hadn't been to a posh school or "top" university.

Lawyers eh? Have to say I've met more awful people in supposedly good law firms in the City than the rest of the world combined.

I think the way you feel about this question is a sign of how you feel about your situation.

Maybe it's time for you to look again at the arrangement and see if you can get back into lawyering, maybe part time?

Nothing against SAHMs but it seems like you feel it's not for you. I think SAHMs who are happy with their situation wouldn't feel humiliated talking about it

For me "buying everything that's needed" is a relaxing thing I do on my phone while commuting or on the loo or whatever. For me, it's really not work.

The fact you see it as work, for example, is another sign you're not really enjoying your arrangement, imo.

If you get back to lawyering you might find the domestic stuff feels less of a chore and more of a break.

I wouldn't say all that hub PA/housekeeper stuff
Mosr working parents do all that and work

I'd think you were a bit weird if that was your response to a chit chat question from someone you've presumably just met or don t know well

I'd avoid you thereafter, the professionally offended are way too hard work for me

I would (and have) answer that "I work harder than ever before. Currently on a career break from xxxx to look after the kids and home, and hoping to get back to xxxx soon/in a few years."

Just say "no, I sit about all day in my pants watching Homes Under the Hammer..."
Who gives a flying fuck what other people think?

As someone who grew up in a city of formerly heavy industry decimated by the recessions of the 80s, and whose father was either unemployed or striking for long periods, I can assure you that no one was asking this then, because it implies options.

I don’t need your oddly patronising assurances, ta. I’m northern, not deaf. I’ve no idea why you think unemployed men in northern towns in the ‘80s were thought to have “options”. Nobody thought that - I can assure you.

All mothers work.

Most jobs are bullshit jobs.

It's not to judge your economic value or status, but it is to place you - will you know about x y z?
e.g. if I was talking to someone at a school PTA meeting who used to be a city lawyer I would have no qualms about cracking through some complex agenda items about the finances or the governance and assuming levels of knowledge. If it was someone who I knew had not had tertiary education or a professional job, I might pace it differently. Both could be SAHMs with different life experiences.

I also find the over-compensating "I work so hard in the home" thing a bit silly too - I wouldn't as a SAHM describe all my daily tasks like they are a big job. (Excepting usually hard care responsibilities - if you have triplets with multiple disabilities then you work harder than everyone, etc)

ALL OF THIS!

I rejoice about being back in professional full time employment, which for me is fathoms easier than SAHM (each to their own, I found it very hard but rewarding) and get much more societal respect for it. And money!

I think it just depends on the person - my pre-kids career was the kind of industry that featured on a thread here recently as an OP's kid wanted to apply for jobs in it and posters were almost affronted she would presume to do so. It is apparently too difficult to get into (I had no connections), too competitive, too ruthless and requires too much intellectual firepower to succeed. I succeeded in it and got to board level and found it much, much easier than when I then left and spent several years at home with kids.

At work I wore nice clothes, drank coffee, worked in intellectually stimulating areas, had meetings in nice places, travelled internationally, announced strategies and got rewarded with kudos, status, money and people saying well done aren't you marvellous and telling me how fascinating my work was.

At home I crawled round the floor cleaning banana, sick and lego up, was isolated, relentless work of cleaning, cooking from scratch, tidying toys, doing the (i think) very difficult work of child development (the stats on what kids need before 5 are insane) and was skint but by far the worst part was that people did seem to relish looking down on me. People felt comfortable really telling me that too, many many times, (throwing myself away etc) so def not in my imagination.

I recently blagged my way back into a more boring but still reasonably high status and respectable full-time professional career and the way in which people now treat me the other way round and the upward effect it has had on my mood has shocked even me.

But of course this is just my experience! Just so the OP knows she is not alone!

One of the many posts regularly on threads like this. SAHM speaks of being judged in a post dripping with judgement towards working mums. Will we ever just stop.

But I think it is more than that, we are being taught or we are picking up that it's somehow less than worthy to be at home. The threads are all full of it at the moment! How have we gone in a couple of generations from being judgemental of women who go out to work to judging those who don't!

I empathise with the OP because before kids I was super naive and idealistic that all the same people would like and respect me while not working and they really, really didn't. I hadn't realised how an interesting job had been a passport to people giving me status and wanting to chat to me etc, and then relegating me to 'boring old mum' status. Granted this was in a big city where work was king, but I was really caught out at how 'beneath' us some women judged being at home with kids! I hadn't judged that, because I had briefly worked abroad in childcare as a teen and found it so difficult, and always thought nannying, nursery work, childminding so unbelivably difficult to do really well (at least I would find it so) so why would doing it your own be any easier (pp makes a good point that you're your own boss).

Any way, I'm more realistic (or cynical?) now about how status driven society is. But like I say, so many people's experiences are different.

I'm a carer to my adult disabled son.
People think I've got it easy because i don't go to work but it's a 24/7 365 days a year rile with no annual leave 🤷‍♀️
I know which job I'd rather have!

Nope, not judging AT ALL. Describing why I wanted to stay home and what was best for MY family. See, a SAHM can't even describe the reasons for her choices without being accused of being judgemental. It is best for US, not everyone!

I remember that bit in Motherland- best bit on the whole show on the whole work/motherhood/identity question and I think it pulls the audience up short too because of course we've never wondered whether Anne was a hotshot in her working life pre-children, so Amanda's obnoxiousness is all of ours.

I understand why you feel you need to defend your reasons for not working, SAHM's are judged but your approach is no different to those judging women who don't work. It's all in the language you have used. Women who work are also present for their kids, cook from scratch and all the other things you have mentioned. If you are truly comfortable with your choice then of course that's fine but you have tried to diminish working mothers, despite your faux denials and you know that.

Oh also, definitely don't list out all the things you do at home- no one cares and anyone sensible knows that looking after small children can be hard work. Just as when you were working you wouldn't have said- "I'm a reinsurance lawyer so I advise my clients on questions of law relevant to reinsurance, I also manage my files, do my billing and keep up with CPD requirements, keep my desk tidy and manage my outlook diary" even though you did do all those things.

The thing you think you need to keep most hidden away is the thing you have most out on show, always.

I read lots of posts from working mums explaining why they do so, including finances, boredom, not allowing themselves to be financially vulnerable, enjoying their work, providing for their families, being a role model etc and completely understand and agree with their views, but I list a few positives for me of being at home and I'm accused of my post, 'dripping with judgement.' I'll just shut up and go back to being 'economically inactive'....

It's not to judge your economic value or status, but it is to place you - will you know about x y z?

Yes - knowing what your job is, if you have one, tells people a snapshot of your values, your education level, your past.

For example a friend of mine was an in-house solicitor for an online banking company. Just that one snippet of information and you probably can guess a bit about what he was like - at least, that he had a degree, decent salary, not of a strict religion that forbids gambling, fairly career driven etc.

I have an aunt who is a gardener - you can probably guess she's quite outdoorsy, likes to be physically active, hearty, cares about the environment etc.

That's why people ask what your job is, it tells you a lot about a person in just a few short words. SAHMs also have lots of interesting things about themselves but the difference is they have to explain them from scratch because SAHMs are all different. Whereas in house gambling app lawyers really aren't as diverse a bunch...!