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Original poster

Can I excuse myself from team building event?

78 replies

InAPickle12345 · 09/12/2023 11:57

Hi, looking for advice, legal or practical, on whether I can ask to be excused from a team building event?

Long story short, I work in a team of 8, there were incidents this year and 2 of the team, who work on the same area of the business together, really showed their true colours. They've shown themselves to be conniving, self serving, pushy, defensive when confronted, rude and to top it off they're both really shit at their jobs, not performing and damaging the brand reputation. These incidents have caused a split down the team, we've never received an apology for their behaviour and we avoid working with them on anything where possible. I also took the brunt of this behaviour numerous times.

The CEO is organising a team building event for early next year. A full day of emotional intelligence bullshit and learning how to 'speak each others language'. I really don't want to do this. It will make me incredibly uncomfortable and anxious and I just want to come in and do my job.

Can I ask to be excused from this? I will very likely be the only one.

OP posts:
Rugbee · 09/12/2023 12:02

Sounds like they are planning a day to get you all to work out how to work together so why would you miss it when this is your opportunity to fix it?

ANightingale · 09/12/2023 12:06

You can ask but they are within their rights to insist you go unless there's a significant practical reason why you can't, e.g. if you have to travel and it impacts caring responsibilities.

MrsSkylerWhite · 09/12/2023 12:07

I suspect you’ll have ‘flu then. Lot of it about in winter.

Original poster
InAPickle12345 · 09/12/2023 12:10

Rugbee · 09/12/2023 12:02

Sounds like they are planning a day to get you all to work out how to work together so why would you miss it when this is your opportunity to fix it?

Because the two people in question are just awful to be honest, incredibly stuck up and the thought of spending a day trying to fix what they broke pisses me off and gives me anxiety.

I just don't see why can't just recognise we don't like working together and just move on and do our jobs. There isn't necessarily much crossover, and there will be less in the New Year because the CEO has taken steps, so I'm not interested in learning how to 'speak their language'.

OP posts:
Original poster
InAPickle12345 · 09/12/2023 12:13

ANightingale · 09/12/2023 12:06

You can ask but they are within their rights to insist you go unless there's a significant practical reason why you can't, e.g. if you have to travel and it impacts caring responsibilities.

I was wondering about the work legalities of it, so they are within their rights to insist I attend? I would prefer if I had a leg to stand on legally and be able to go to my CEO and outline the reasons why I don't want to attend, as opposed to just call in with and emergency last minute. I don't want my job to be affected by me not attending and I don't think it should be.

OP posts:
ANightingale · 09/12/2023 12:18

InAPickle12345 · 09/12/2023 12:13

I was wondering about the work legalities of it, so they are within their rights to insist I attend? I would prefer if I had a leg to stand on legally and be able to go to my CEO and outline the reasons why I don't want to attend, as opposed to just call in with and emergency last minute. I don't want my job to be affected by me not attending and I don't think it should be.

Show quote history

I don't think a team-building day can legally be classed as an unreasonable request unless it involves something you physically/practically can't do.

How sympathetic is your CEO?

FrippEnos · 09/12/2023 12:19

I hate these types of days, all that tends to come from them is that those that caused the issues brown nose and get praised. Whilst everyone else trys to conform knowing that the end result is that the arseholes will continue to be the arseholes that they always have been.

Original poster
InAPickle12345 · 09/12/2023 12:20

FrippEnos · 09/12/2023 12:19

I hate these types of days, all that tends to come from them is that those that caused the issues brown nose and get praised. Whilst everyone else trys to conform knowing that the end result is that the arseholes will continue to be the arseholes that they always have been.

EXACTLY!!! And I know I'll just get pissed off during the day and I'd honestly be afraid of what I'd say.

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Original poster
InAPickle12345 · 09/12/2023 12:21

@ANightingale He's honestly the best boss I've ever had, he is so hardworking and respectful of us and our home lives, he's just brilliant really.

I can see he is trying to fix this but as far as I'm concerned this is not fixable and I don't understand why we can't just move on.

OP posts:
ANightingale · 09/12/2023 12:24

InAPickle12345 · 09/12/2023 12:21

@ANightingale He's honestly the best boss I've ever had, he is so hardworking and respectful of us and our home lives, he's just brilliant really.

I can see he is trying to fix this but as far as I'm concerned this is not fixable and I don't understand why we can't just move on.

Then I would talk to him about why you don't want to go, explaining the discomfort and anxiety you will feel. You don't have to come out and say you think the day itself is a bad idea, just that you don't feel it will be personally helpful and the idea is causing you anxiety.

SheilaFentiman · 09/12/2023 12:25

I don’t think you have any legal rights not to go. It’s a working day, your contract probably specifies that you can be expected to work at different locations for
time to time on any tasks reasonably necessary for your job. Team communications would seem reasonable.

If it’s hot air ballooning and you are scared of heights, or it’s an overnight stay, then you have more of a case.

Original poster
InAPickle12345 · 09/12/2023 12:27

@ANightingale I have diagnosed anxiety and have taken medication for this up until 10mins or so ago. Should I lean into that as the reason in the hope that as it's diagnosed, he can't hold my non attendance against me? As lovely as he is, I'm sure this could be a black mark against me if I don't go about it the right way.

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Original poster
InAPickle12345 · 09/12/2023 12:28

*up until 10 months ago!

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ANightingale · 09/12/2023 12:33

It's certainly worth mentioning that it's a diagnosed condition.

Unfortunately, if he's going to think less of you for not going, there's not a lot you can do about how he feels. I expect, if you talk to him, he will try to reassure you/persuade you to go.

In your shoes I think I would grit my teeth, go, and try to 'tune out' as much as I could, give a token participation only. If I really couldn't stand it on the day, I'd make some excuse to leave early - crisis at home/feeling unwell.

Original poster
InAPickle12345 · 09/12/2023 12:33

SheilaFentiman · 09/12/2023 12:25

I don’t think you have any legal rights not to go. It’s a working day, your contract probably specifies that you can be expected to work at different locations for
time to time on any tasks reasonably necessary for your job. Team communications would seem reasonable.

If it’s hot air ballooning and you are scared of heights, or it’s an overnight stay, then you have more of a case.

No, it's neither of those things. It'll likely be us in a room at our normal place of work all day, talking about our feelings and personality types.

Even the thought of it is turning my stomach. The rest of us get on like a house on fire, would bend over backwards to help one another, communicate effectively through difficult matters, socialise outside of work and I would call us all friends. We don't need this, the other two have caused this.

OP posts:
EBearhug · 09/12/2023 12:38

I would think if you're not prepared to go, then you're part of the problem. It's not just about you speaking their language, but also about them seeing it from your perspective as well, and hopefully seeing the light and apologising. (I doubt this hope would be realised, but sometimes you have to try.)

I doubt you're going to change your mind, so the best option is to speak to your boss, as ANightingale suggests.

Legally, most job contracts include a phrase about "other duties as reasonably required by management," or similar wording, so unless there's an issue like physical ability, you're stuck with it, especially as it sounds like it's probably in am office/conference centre, rather than an Outward Bound day.

Original poster
InAPickle12345 · 09/12/2023 12:39

ANightingale · 09/12/2023 12:33

It's certainly worth mentioning that it's a diagnosed condition.

Unfortunately, if he's going to think less of you for not going, there's not a lot you can do about how he feels. I expect, if you talk to him, he will try to reassure you/persuade you to go.

In your shoes I think I would grit my teeth, go, and try to 'tune out' as much as I could, give a token participation only. If I really couldn't stand it on the day, I'd make some excuse to leave early - crisis at home/feeling unwell.

I suppose it's an either / or situation. I can't speak to him about my concerns or anxiety before the event AND then have my Mum or son or someone call me with an emergency on the day, it'll have to be one or the other. I'll give this some thought.

OP posts:
ANightingale · 09/12/2023 12:46

InAPickle12345 · 09/12/2023 12:39

I suppose it's an either / or situation. I can't speak to him about my concerns or anxiety before the event AND then have my Mum or son or someone call me with an emergency on the day, it'll have to be one or the other. I'll give this some thought.

Show quote history

Yes, that's very true. One way of looking at it is that, if you think reluctance to go is going to create a negative impression whether or not he agrees you don't have to go, you have less to lose by taking the 'excuse on the day' approach.

NoTouch · 09/12/2023 12:46

If isnt just about "learning their language" it is about them learning yours too.

It is not unreasonable to ask a team with significant issues to explore, with support from a professional, ways to resolve them.

It will be uncomfortable, but hopefully handled well there will be some positive outcomes.

Original poster
InAPickle12345 · 09/12/2023 12:46

EBearhug · 09/12/2023 12:38

I would think if you're not prepared to go, then you're part of the problem. It's not just about you speaking their language, but also about them seeing it from your perspective as well, and hopefully seeing the light and apologising. (I doubt this hope would be realised, but sometimes you have to try.)

I doubt you're going to change your mind, so the best option is to speak to your boss, as ANightingale suggests.

Legally, most job contracts include a phrase about "other duties as reasonably required by management," or similar wording, so unless there's an issue like physical ability, you're stuck with it, especially as it sounds like it's probably in am office/conference centre, rather than an Outward Bound day.

Edited

Honestly, these people look down on me so much they will never see it from my perspective, and I'm not interested in explaining it anymore. I did explain my perspective when these incidents happened and it wasn't respected.

I probably am part of the problem to be honest if my CEOs end goal is to have us ALL as close as the other 6 of us are, he is very big on the team and working together as 'one team'...but I just want to do my job, collaborate with them when necessary only and otherwise avoid them like the plague. I've lost any respect I've had for them due to how they've treated me and the fact they're causing these issues AND also not performing just makes me respect them less.

OP posts:
Neriah · 09/12/2023 12:51

I just don't see why can't just recognise we don't like working together and just move on and do our jobs.

Or if you despise your colleagues that much you could either make a formal complaint about their alleged actions, or literally "move on" and find another job. What you can't do is simply refuse to take part in workplace activities because you don't like some of the people. It's a workplace and not a school playground. You are complaining about members of the team not pulling their weight, not being good members of the team, and not being able to work together with others, then objecting to an activity designed to build the team. You must see how perverse that is?

Don't get me wrong - I bloody hate team building activities myself. Although not because I have problems with members of my team. I just don't enjoy them or find them useful. But realistically, you either need to be seen to participate in team activities, or you need to be upfront about the problems and complain. If you don't do anything to fix the situation, you are as much a part of the problem as you say they are.

Jellycatspyjamas · 09/12/2023 12:55

What difficulties does your “collaborate when necessary and avoid” cause. It’s not just about your working environment, it’s theirs too and if 6 people in the team get on like a house on fire, the other two could be left feeling very excluded, which isn’t ok. Your boss clearly sees an impact and is trying to resolve the issue, while you might not agree with his approach I don’t think an entrenched position is productive in such a small team.

People screw up at work, they make mistakes and get things wrong. How would you propose to address the rift in the team given you don’t feel comfortable with the boss’ approach.

NoTouch · 09/12/2023 12:57

Honestly, these people look down on me so much they will never see it from my perspective, and I'm not interested in explaining it anymore. I did explain my perspective when these incidents happened and it wasn't respected.

A team day is a perfect opportunity for a neutral party to listen to you and other team members. But you will need to listen too and be ready to accept your own faults, as none of us are perfect, if you are going to get any benefit from it.

youveturnedupwelldone · 09/12/2023 13:00

I think if you don't go you're part of the problem. If the team does sort out even some of its differences you'll be left in the margins. I'd just suck it up and go.

I've been in the same sort of situation before, generally there's been something positive about it, and once we all came away with clarity over why we all disliked each other so much 😂 it was strangely useful and the team did function better as a business delivery unit afterwards as it calmed down the nonsense!

Original poster
InAPickle12345 · 09/12/2023 13:01

@Neriah In terms of moving on and finding another job, I had been actively looking until a couple of weeks ago. M CEO found out and has made arrangements for next year such that my interaction with them will now be very minimal, whereas before I would have had to work closely with them on various projects. He's done this on the understanding I will stay another 12 months minimum. I'm happy with this, and the benefits that come with the role are not something I would want to give up easily. I also really love working with the rest of the team.

We also did bring major grievances to the CEO when these incidents happened and made our dissatisfaction very clear. The working environment was very difficult for a long time, the the point I considered medication again and obviously a change in job until these changes he's made recently. This appears to be his way of 'fixing' things completely and having us all be great friends, which won't happen. Not just with me, the others will feel the same but maybe aren't as effected emotionally as I am because I'm just wired this way.

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