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Original poster

Advice needed regarding revoking of flexible working arrangement.

196 replies

Pastarasta1 · 05/12/2023 11:19

Hi all, am need in some urgent advice regarding a situation that has arisen today.
I work in the NHS in an administrative role.
For the past two years I have had a flexible working arrangement which allowed me to WFH two days a week.
I am also a single parent to a young child in primary education.
As of this week, our employer has decided to revoke ALL WFH for our team except those covered under the Equality Act 2010 (i.e reasonable adjustments/passports)
I am not part of a Union.
My argument has been that as a 100% lone parent, I cannot physically do the 5 days in the office because of my childcare arrangements not being available to me on Monday and Friday.
In addition, I have mentioned I also basically won't see my child and she will be in clubs 5 days a week if the requirement is made to be in the office 5 days a week.
I will either be in a position where I need to drop down to part time hours or that I need to leave my employment.
I just want to know where I stand?
I understand that being a single parent isn't a protected characteristic but is there any element of indirect sex discrimination going on towards me as I am a woman/lone parent/main breadwinner as a result of not being allowed to work flexibly?
My contract states my place of employment is the main hospital building I work from, however I have had an informal flexible working arrangement for nearly two years.
Any advice would be great.

OP posts:
Neriah · 05/12/2023 11:35

Your place of work is stipulated, and you have no flexible working agreement in place, so the employer is within their rights to tell you that you must return to the workplace.

I would be VERY cautious about telling them that your argument for needing to work from home is to cover childcare - in many workplaces you are not allowed to look after your children during your working hours. Being a lone parent does not make any difference to that.

Nobody has said to you that you cannot work flexibly. You haven't applied for nor sought formal agreement of flexible working, so it isn't being denied. Your correct steps would be to formally ask for it, and then the employer will need to consdier that request in relation to their business requirement.

I will repeat - DO NOT ask for flexible working based on having no childcare, because that opens a can of worms that you very definitely do not want to explore.

Neriah · 05/12/2023 11:38

I should have added that a request for flexible working isn't always cut and dried in so far as you can ask for what you want, but if the employer can't meet that need they might offer alternatives or no change. I would guess that asking for Monday and Friday may be particularly difficult so maybe think about whether there is an option B for you?

Auntieobem · 05/12/2023 11:38

And also don't use the argument that you'll not see your child if you're working. That's just nonsense.

Neriah · 05/12/2023 11:46

Auntieobem · 05/12/2023 11:38

And also don't use the argument that you'll not see your child if you're working. That's just nonsense.

Good point!

Original poster
Pastarasta1 · 05/12/2023 11:48

My argument is indirect sex discrimination, I am asking if there is a basis for this because I am a lone parent and the main breadwinner. There is no family support for me also.
The childcare situation was just another factor.

OP posts:
ElevenSeven · 05/12/2023 11:50

Your child should still be in childcare if you are wfh, so no; you can’t use that.

There’s no discrimination here.

CharityShopChic · 05/12/2023 11:50

My argument has been that as a 100% lone parent, I cannot physically do the 5 days in the office because of my childcare arrangements not being available to me on Monday and Friday.

To put it very very bluntly - your childcare arrangements are irrelevant to them. And agree telling them you need to be at home because your kids are there is just digging an even deeper hole for yourself.

ElevenSeven · 05/12/2023 11:51

CharityShopChic · 05/12/2023 11:50

My argument has been that as a 100% lone parent, I cannot physically do the 5 days in the office because of my childcare arrangements not being available to me on Monday and Friday.

To put it very very bluntly - your childcare arrangements are irrelevant to them. And agree telling them you need to be at home because your kids are there is just digging an even deeper hole for yourself.

Peoplr abusing wfh by not using childcare is also a massive factor in why it’s often being revoked for everyone

Theunamedcat · 05/12/2023 11:53

Are they overstaffed? Sounds like they want to lose staff through "natural wastage"

Any chance you could transfer depts? Or change jobs? Not a short term answer I know

Original poster
Pastarasta1 · 05/12/2023 11:53

FGS, what I mean is, my daughter is in school on Monday and Friday, there is nobody available to pick her up and drop her off on Monday and Friday which is why I was WFH, it didn't impact my working day and nor did I have her with me when I was working. The childcare she uses for Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday isn't available on Monday and Friday. I don't have anyone else to ask, no family, no support, just me.
I do not WFH with my daughter there so I am not abusing WFH.

OP posts:
biedrona · 05/12/2023 11:55

sorry, your child goes to school only 2 days a week?

StickyStickMick · 05/12/2023 11:55

I’m not sure the advice above is correct. If you have been working flexibility I think they have to demonstrate there is a business reason why this is no longer working.? I would have thought a blanket rule could lead to indirect sex discrimination. Could you try asking ACAS?

Neriah · 05/12/2023 11:55

Pastarasta1 · 05/12/2023 11:48

My argument is indirect sex discrimination, I am asking if there is a basis for this because I am a lone parent and the main breadwinner. There is no family support for me also.
The childcare situation was just another factor.

I didn't cover that because the answer is no. You have a job - a job that you accepted - that is five days a week based in a hospital. That was your choice. That job has never changed - you may have had some informal flexibility, but that was not a contractual term and was never agreed. That situation has now changed and you are required to work to your contractual terms. The only way to vary those is through a formal flexible working agreement. Your being a lone parent or having no family support is not relevant. People who are lone parents or have no family support and want to work full time need full-time childcare. That is the response you will get.

I am not unsympathetic to your position, but in employment terms you are not being discriminated against, and, as I have already pointed out, your arguments in this respect are that you are doing childcare whilst working which is rarely permitted. Apart from anything else, it can be a huge health and safety issue. One of our directors was dismissed for doing this - it would have been a disciplinary offence for anyone, but she was ultimately responsible for enforcing the policy and so the employer consdiered her actions significantly worse.

CharityShopChic · 05/12/2023 11:58

I get what you are saying @Pastarasta1 but you want to take time out of your day at 9am and 3pm to take your child to school and collect her. You might not think it impacts your working day, they clearly think it is. Or maybe one of your colleagues is totally taking the piss and has been doing so little that this is a general policy being imposed across the hospital/Trust - everyone back in.

You can put in a flexible working request, they can refuse it. This isn;t a discrimination situation. How old is your child?

Neriah · 05/12/2023 11:58

Pastarasta1 · 05/12/2023 11:53

FGS, what I mean is, my daughter is in school on Monday and Friday, there is nobody available to pick her up and drop her off on Monday and Friday which is why I was WFH, it didn't impact my working day and nor did I have her with me when I was working. The childcare she uses for Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday isn't available on Monday and Friday. I don't have anyone else to ask, no family, no support, just me.
I do not WFH with my daughter there so I am not abusing WFH.

But that wasn't what you said, even when it was pointed out to you earlier!!!

PastelHouses · 05/12/2023 11:58

This reply has been deleted

This is a goady troll so we've removed their posts.

Original poster
Pastarasta1 · 05/12/2023 11:59

StickyStickMick · 05/12/2023 11:55

I’m not sure the advice above is correct. If you have been working flexibility I think they have to demonstrate there is a business reason why this is no longer working.? I would have thought a blanket rule could lead to indirect sex discrimination. Could you try asking ACAS?

I have joined Unison today.

OP posts:
Neriah · 05/12/2023 11:59

StickyStickMick · 05/12/2023 11:55

I’m not sure the advice above is correct. If you have been working flexibility I think they have to demonstrate there is a business reason why this is no longer working.? I would have thought a blanket rule could lead to indirect sex discrimination. Could you try asking ACAS?

The title of ther thread is incorrect - they have not rtevoked the arrangement because there is no arrangement. She needs to make a formal request. Which may not be agreed.

Original poster
Pastarasta1 · 05/12/2023 12:00

biedrona · 05/12/2023 11:55

sorry, your child goes to school only 2 days a week?

Not even answering this deliberately obtuse question.

OP posts:
Original poster
Pastarasta1 · 05/12/2023 12:00

Neriah · 05/12/2023 11:59

The title of ther thread is incorrect - they have not rtevoked the arrangement because there is no arrangement. She needs to make a formal request. Which may not be agreed.

Show quote history

I did make a formal request. It was submitted via ESR and recorded.

OP posts:
Neriah · 05/12/2023 12:01

Pastarasta1 · 05/12/2023 11:59

I have joined Unison today.

Show quote history

Did you read the bit about the wating period before you are entitled to representation? And not supporting new members with pre-existing problems?

You may be lucky and get a lay rep who will help, but this is why there are such rules - people jopin when they have a problem and then resign when it's all over.

gotomomo · 05/12/2023 12:01

The fact that you don't have child care isn't their problem and in fact is the reason why a lot of wfh is being revoked, wfh still requires child care.

itendswithus · 05/12/2023 12:02

I'm not sure unison will help if you've joined after the problem has already arisen. You need to speak to your union rep and ask.

Neriah · 05/12/2023 12:03

Pastarasta1 · 05/12/2023 12:00

I did make a formal request. It was submitted via ESR and recorded.

Show quote history

You said it was an informal arrangement! I quote "I have had an informal flexible working arrangement for nearly two years."

I give up. It's impossible to advise when the ground shifts...

gotomomo · 05/12/2023 12:06

The fact you are taking and collecting your child during the working day means it is affecting your work.

Employers were flexible during covid but it was never going to last because it affected work. Dp brought all his staff back in full time in 2021, the only ones who complained that they could work as effectively at home were the very people who were not productive from home!