Page 8 | Advice needed regarding revoking of flexible working arrangement.

Pastarasta1 · 2023-12-05T11:19:32+00:00

Hi all, am need in some urgent advice regarding a situation that has arisen today. I work in the NHS in an administrative role. For the past two years I have had a flexible working arrangement which allowed me to WFH two days a week. I am also a single parent to a young child in primary education. As of this week, our employer has decided to revoke ALL WFH for our team except those covered under the Equality Act 2010 (i.e reasonable adjustments/passports) I am not part of a Union. My argument has been that as a 100% lone parent, I cannot physically do the 5 days in the office because of my childcare arrangements not being available to me on Monday and Friday. In addition, I have mentioned I also basically won't see my child and she will be in clubs 5 days a week if the requirement is made to be in the office 5 days a week. I will either be in a position where I need to drop down to part time hours or that I need to leave my employment. I just want to know where I stand? I understand that being a single parent isn't a protected characteristic but is there any element of indirect sex discrimination going on towards me as I am a woman/lone parent/main breadwinner as a result of not being allowed to work flexibly? My contract states my place of employment is the main hospital building I work from, however I have had an informal flexible working arrangement for nearly two years. Any advice would be great.

fuckssaaaaake · 10/12/2023 07:39

FloweryName · 05/12/2023 12:08

Who looks after your child after school on the days you work from home? Honestly I think it’s the fact that people are doing school runs during the working day that has led to so many employers revoking wfh, even if all those employees think it has no impact on their job.

There is no sex discrimination if they’re telling everyone wfh has to end.

It doesn't affect me personally but honestly I always wonder why working days and school start times are not aligned in any way. It's helped me because I've made a breakfast club business out of it but I've no idea how everyone does it

MikeRafone · 10/12/2023 07:48

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/98075.stm

childcare isn’t always irrelevant

id contact ACAS fir impartial advice

working pattern being at home for 2 years have become your work conditions

BBC News | UK | Mother wins landmark case

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/98075.stm

LOllypop8 · 10/12/2023 07:58

Hi OP,
There is a lot of misinformation here from people who don’t work for the NHS. There are many reasons NHS allow flexible working requests and as a single parent you actually do have a right. How old is your child?.
Has the request been working for the past two years? And if so has it impacted the team?. How will it work going forward?. Have you thought about a childminder for those days?. I’m guessing you are Band2/3- as a single parent it may actually be better you to reduce your hours and claim UC if work will not allow the request- more than likely you will be better off financially and get to spend more time with your little one, hope this has helped. You have done the right thing getting a union but put in an email with your boss regarding your requesting ending so you have it in writing. X

tokesqueen · 10/12/2023 08:06

'The needs of the service come first' I was told after over twenty years in the NHS. I was given six months notice to sort childcare due to a change in working patterns. Impossible given my situation. So I left. That service is on its knees now.
Start looking and good luck.

WashItTomorrow · 10/12/2023 08:06

LOllypop8 · 10/12/2023 07:58

Hi OP,
There is a lot of misinformation here from people who don’t work for the NHS. There are many reasons NHS allow flexible working requests and as a single parent you actually do have a right. How old is your child?.
Has the request been working for the past two years? And if so has it impacted the team?. How will it work going forward?. Have you thought about a childminder for those days?. I’m guessing you are Band2/3- as a single parent it may actually be better you to reduce your hours and claim UC if work will not allow the request- more than likely you will be better off financially and get to spend more time with your little one, hope this has helped. You have done the right thing getting a union but put in an email with your boss regarding your requesting ending so you have it in writing. X

That’s not correct. Everyone has the right to request flexible working. It doesn’t just apply to single parents.

LOllypop8 · 10/12/2023 08:09

I think you have misread. I have said that there are many reasons the NHS allow flexible working and as a single parent you do have a right.

Karwomannghia · 10/12/2023 08:10

What has your manager said about this when you’ve asked her this time? Is she approachable just to talk it through and offer advice? As a manager I would support your case for reasonable adjustments. You are sole carer and have your own mh needs.

WashItTomorrow · 10/12/2023 08:57

LOllypop8 · 10/12/2023 08:09

I think you have misread. I have said that there are many reasons the NHS allow flexible working and as a single parent you do have a right.

I haven’t misread at all. You keep stating that as a “single parent you have the right”. That’s just not true. Single parents have no more rights than anyone else. They’re not a special case.

LOllypop8 · 10/12/2023 09:18

Yes a right to apply for flexible working request like I said there are many reasons didn’t just specifically say it’s for single parents only was answering the OP’s question as this is her dilemma, in the NHS it’s a valid reason. Do you work for the NHS? Because as someone who deals with these I am correct. Have a good day.

EBearhug · 10/12/2023 09:36

Because as someone who deals with these I am correct.

Yes, because everyone legally has the right to request flexible working. That includes single parents, but not as a special case.

WashItTomorrow · 10/12/2023 10:13

LOllypop8 · 10/12/2023 09:18

Yes a right to apply for flexible working request like I said there are many reasons didn’t just specifically say it’s for single parents only was answering the OP’s question as this is her dilemma, in the NHS it’s a valid reason. Do you work for the NHS? Because as someone who deals with these I am correct. Have a good day.

It doesn’t matter what the reasons are why someone wants flexible working. There’s no such thing as a “valid reason”. Anyone has the right to ask for it for any reason whatsoever or none. You don’t sound very well informed.

VanGoghsDog · 10/12/2023 12:12

WashItTomorrow · 10/12/2023 10:13

It doesn’t matter what the reasons are why someone wants flexible working. There’s no such thing as a “valid reason”. Anyone has the right to ask for it for any reason whatsoever or none. You don’t sound very well informed.

Edited

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Agreed!

The NHS, as mighty as it may be, cannot amend legislation.

If the NHS has a list of "valid reasons" where all requests would automatically be granted, that's very risky because other groups not on that list may well object. What if someone's religion didn't allow them to work a certain day and they asked for shifts not to include that day and were turned down. If that is not one of the prescribed "valid reasons" and the employer chooses one of the right legally legitimate reasons for declining it, that employee could well have a discrimination claim.

There is plenty of case law to show that all requests should be treated individually on their merits and that not to do so is not reasonable so would be open to challenge. That goes for both blanket declining and blanket accepting.

Thinkitsrainingagain · 12/12/2023 10:04

Has your employer confirmed that they are expecting you back in the office even though you have a formal FWA agreed? Could it be that the blanket back to the office is for those who don't have an agreement in place?

QueenCoconut · 12/12/2023 10:28

Hi OP not sure if this has been mentioned already but have you spoken to HR about this? I think I would consider going down the implied T&C route as the current arrangement has been in place for so long.

Original poster

Pastarasta1 · 13/12/2023 08:44

So, I had a meeting with my managers who advised to submit a flexible working request again.

My question is, which I forgot to ask at the time. In submitting a new request, if that isn't approved am I then off flexible working completely as I presume the old flexible working agreement which was approved last year won't stand?

OP posts:

VanGoghsDog · 13/12/2023 08:50

Pastarasta1 · 13/12/2023 08:44

So, I had a meeting with my managers who advised to submit a flexible working request again.

My question is, which I forgot to ask at the time. In submitting a new request, if that isn't approved am I then off flexible working completely as I presume the old flexible working agreement which was approved last year won't stand?

I'd be wary of submitting a new request, that would imply that you accept the previous request was not agreed or has somehow lapsed.

And it gives them the chance to say no once and for all (though there is a right of appeal).

I would just write and say "given my agreed terms following my flexible working request of x date, I will continue to work in the way I have been as I appreciate that the recent communication was not relevant to me".

CormorantStrikesBack · 13/12/2023 08:51

They can do what they want ime as long as they give you enough notice. My contract said my work location was A. They told me to go and work an hour away in B, permanently. I said no. Pointed out my contract.

They said they’d give me 28 day’s consultation and then change my contract.

I was in the union and the rep said that was quite reasonable and they didn’t know why I was making a fuss. Said there was nothing they could do that I had to accept the new contract or leave. I left. This was nhs

VanGoghsDog · 13/12/2023 08:58

CormorantStrikesBack · 13/12/2023 08:51

They can do what they want ime as long as they give you enough notice. My contract said my work location was A. They told me to go and work an hour away in B, permanently. I said no. Pointed out my contract.

They said they’d give me 28 day’s consultation and then change my contract.

I was in the union and the rep said that was quite reasonable and they didn’t know why I was making a fuss. Said there was nothing they could do that I had to accept the new contract or leave. I left. This was nhs

Edited

You got bad advice there. Though the options were to do it or claim it's a redundancy situation. Which you may or may not have wanted I guess.

No idea where this "28 days notice" comes from, which law did they allegedly pick that from?

NancyMaloni · 13/12/2023 09:01

Good luck op! I am sorry this thread is so horrible.

Original poster

Pastarasta1 · 13/12/2023 09:07

VanGoghsDog · 13/12/2023 08:50

I'd be wary of submitting a new request, that would imply that you accept the previous request was not agreed or has somehow lapsed.

And it gives them the chance to say no once and for all (though there is a right of appeal).

I would just write and say "given my agreed terms following my flexible working request of x date, I will continue to work in the way I have been as I appreciate that the recent communication was not relevant to me".

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This is what I'm worried about. Does the new request somehow cancel the old request?.. I'm just worried about getting the sack!

OP posts:

VanGoghsDog · 13/12/2023 09:26

Pastarasta1 · 13/12/2023 09:07

This is what I'm worried about. Does the new request somehow cancel the old request?.. I'm just worried about getting the sack!

Show quote history

On what grounds could they sack you?

The potentially fair reasons for dismissal are:

Conduct
Capability
Redundancy
Illegality/statutory requirement
Some Other Substantial Reason

Then there are a number of automatically unfair reasons for dismissal, and asserting your right to a statutory provision (such as putting in a flexible working request) would be one of those.