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Advice needed regarding revoking of flexible working arrangement.

196 replies

Pastarasta1 · 05/12/2023 11:19

Hi all, am need in some urgent advice regarding a situation that has arisen today.
I work in the NHS in an administrative role.
For the past two years I have had a flexible working arrangement which allowed me to WFH two days a week.
I am also a single parent to a young child in primary education.
As of this week, our employer has decided to revoke ALL WFH for our team except those covered under the Equality Act 2010 (i.e reasonable adjustments/passports)
I am not part of a Union.
My argument has been that as a 100% lone parent, I cannot physically do the 5 days in the office because of my childcare arrangements not being available to me on Monday and Friday.
In addition, I have mentioned I also basically won't see my child and she will be in clubs 5 days a week if the requirement is made to be in the office 5 days a week.
I will either be in a position where I need to drop down to part time hours or that I need to leave my employment.
I just want to know where I stand?
I understand that being a single parent isn't a protected characteristic but is there any element of indirect sex discrimination going on towards me as I am a woman/lone parent/main breadwinner as a result of not being allowed to work flexibly?
My contract states my place of employment is the main hospital building I work from, however I have had an informal flexible working arrangement for nearly two years.
Any advice would be great.

OP posts:
Neriah · 05/12/2023 12:52

@Startingagainandagain I would ignore most of the reply OPs suggesting that there is nothin you can do and are being unreasonable.

Nobody had said that though. Everyone has given advice on what the OP can do based on what the OP has themselves said. And what the law says. Not opinion. What is sensible ( in your opinion) and what is fact are very different. Advising people to just ignore good advice because you don't like it isn't sensible. As with advising someone they definitely didn't commit fraud when everything they have said themselves suggests that they actually did.

oatmilk4breakfast · 05/12/2023 12:52

👋 hi, I just wanted to say please try giving the Working Families free legal helpline a call or check out their website. I used to work there and if you can get through the lawyers are amazing. go to workingfamilies.org.uk - there’s a parents and caters tab with advice on. Then helpline is 0300 012 0312 and they are open Weds 11-2. Good luck

oatmilk4breakfast · 05/12/2023 12:58

I mean weekdays 11-2!

autienotnaughty · 05/12/2023 12:59

I cannot see a grounds for sex discrimination as I assume if a male was in the same position as you the same rules would apply. There's no single parent discrimination unfortunately.

What is your child care tues/wed/thurs. ?
I would not mention to your work about taking your break at 3pm as you shouldn't be doing that, as others say don't mention childcare.

Your best argument is the length of time this has been in place as proof it is a workable situation and could be considered a contracted agreement.

helpfulperson · 05/12/2023 13:01

Even if this arrangement has been in place for two years it is illegal. Others have given the requirement for breaks. Neither you nor your employer can choose to opt out.

ActDottie · 05/12/2023 13:20

The employer is well within their rights to do this BUT I think it’s unreasonable of them. Hybrid working is the modern way of working now.

Do you have any medical reasons covered by the equality act? Maybe yet to be diagnosed professionally?

Our work said we had to be in 2 days a week, but I have BPD, anxiety and depression so was able to negotiate a workplace adjustment of just 1 day a week.

Alternatively I’d look for alternative employment I generally don’t think 3 days in the office and 2 days from home will be hard to find. Nearly every job I see if hybrid now.

Firstshoes · 05/12/2023 13:27

I am NHS admin and have been hybrid with 2 days at home since covid. I have always been under the impression that could change any time as my contract has never been changed from on site. We are all aware we could get called back in full time if that's what they want.

2jacqi · 05/12/2023 13:35

@Pastarasta1 how can you work if you are looking after your child??? this is the reason that wfm does not work. People are abusing it all the time, putting washing on, hanging washing out, school runs, childcare, making tea! when is the work done without interuption?????

Mumsnut · 05/12/2023 13:40

I seem to remember a recentish case / article on this front, OP. I think you should re-post in legal.

Pastarasta1 · 05/12/2023 14:03

Thank you. Sorry if I have been unclear in anyway.
I am just trying to look for a solution which doesn't mean I have to take a significant financial pay cut or be forced out of my job.
I have also been diagnosed with generalised anxiety order.

OP posts:
MadMadamMimz · 05/12/2023 14:09

OP - I think what people are trying to establish from you and which is currently unclear from your posts is what happened once you submitted your request for flexible working -

Was it agreed and a change made to your contract? Or
Was it agreed but your contract was not changed? Or
Was it not agreed but has been happening anyway? (An employer must respond to a request for flexible working within a particular timeframe.)

The answer to the above will change the advice on how to proceed.

Mrsttcno1 · 05/12/2023 14:09

Unfortunately this is what is happening basically across the board now, hybrid/wfh being revoked. You can submit a request for flexible working but they don’t have to accept it, it’s not discrimination because if you were a dad in the same position you would still be in the same boat.

Trez1510 · 05/12/2023 14:39

Pastarasta1 · 05/12/2023 11:59

I have joined Unison today.

I'm confident they will be assembling their best stewards etc. to represent the newbie with the massive problem. It's precisely what all those who have paid their dues for years/decades would insist upon. 🙄

Where does your child go on Mondays/Fridays when they schools are on holiday?

Pastarasta1 · 05/12/2023 14:53

@Trez1510 is there any need to be so unkind in each of your posts and deliberately obtuse also?
I am a lone parent with no family support, no paternal support, I have used paid childcare since my child was 12 months old. I have never abused WFH for childcare arrangements. I take annual leave for holidays and for Monday's and Friday's where I couldn't, she would go to holiday club.
I requested WFH for more flexibility and I work incredibly hard for it. I also log on in the evenings and my work has never been impacted.
You want to pick apart every single post of mine and not provide any constructive advice.
I don't want to be someone who takes the piss by WFH for childcare.
The arrangement was working well. The needs of the service were being met.
I was advised to join a Union, I have taken that advice. Your comments are so unkind and unnecessary and you clearly get a thrill from it.

OP posts:
notmorezoom · 05/12/2023 14:54

Firstly, anyone who works for such a dysfunctional employer as the NHS, without being in a union, is bonkers. Join today for future issues - obviously they won't cover this one.

how valued are you?
how easy are you to replace?
how easy would it be for you to find another job with 2d/week WFH?

The answers to these will give you the outcome. If you are valued and tricky to replace, and could find work elsewhere, just start going to interviews and tell them you are looking. If they could replace you ten times over, you're in more trouble.

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 05/12/2023 14:57

If you have a diagnosis of anxiety that is a disability.
Why not request the days from home on the basis it is an accommodation for disability?

Okaaaay · 05/12/2023 15:14

So much anti-WFH sentiment (and meanness) on this thread. OP, NHS manager here. This is really challenging (and short sighted of your employer, though I don’t know detail). My advise, pull together your evidence and facts around your home working (emails, requests, any info about productivity / what you have delivered during this time etc), get hold of your employers flexible working policy (and anything related ) and start to form a coherent narrative supporting the value you add. You have WFH successful for xx years, you are a single parent with full carer responsibilities and you have delivered this role for xyz time successfully at home. There is no such thing as a blanket ‘everyone get back to it’ I n my view. You are entitled to request flexibility and the NHS People Plan prompts employers to think about how to enable this. See the below. Good luck.

https://www.nhsemployers.org/staff-experience/flexible-working#:~:text=Greater%20flexible%20working%20choices&text=Employers%20need%20to%20help%20realise,remains%20an%20employer%20of%20choice.

Flexible working

Learn how employers can support their staff by offering flexible working and flexible retirement options.

https://www.nhsemployers.org/staff-experience/flexible-working#:~:text=Greater%20flexible%20working%20choices&text=Employers%20need%20to%20help%20realise,remains%20an%20employer%20of%20choice.

Pastarasta1 · 05/12/2023 15:20

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 05/12/2023 14:57

If you have a diagnosis of anxiety that is a disability.
Why not request the days from home on the basis it is an accommodation for disability?

How would I go about proving this though? Do I need doctors note? Is evidence from my CBT therapist enough?

OP posts:
Bearpawk · 05/12/2023 15:29

Comefromaway · 05/12/2023 12:25

It is also illegal for you not to take at least a 20 minute break if working for more than 6 hours. The break has to be taken in the middle of the day, it cannot be taken at the end of the day.

This is not true. You have the legal 'right to' the break but it's not illegal for the employee to not take it.

Thinkitsrainingagain · 05/12/2023 15:30

@Pastarasta1 - when you started working from home, did they change your contract? If so, you have some protection. If not, you will need to submit a FWA request. I would focus on what benefits having the arrangement has for the business (you mentioned logging on in the evening). Do not say that you want to work from home for childcare reasons as they will assume you are looking after your child and not working.

Your FWA can only be rejected on specific business reasons. If your FWA is rejected, you have the right to appeal and can challenge the decision as you are able to demonstrate that you have been able to meet the business needs for the last 2 years.

I'm not sure if you have performance ratings, but if your performance rating has gone up since WFH then this will support that it is beneficial to the company.

You do need to follow the rules and submit a formal request and appeal before considering a tribunal claim. It could be indirect sex discrimination but tribunals are funny things.

Whataretheodds · 05/12/2023 15:41

Pastarasta1 · 05/12/2023 12:14

I submitted the proforma and it was recorded as a formal request to work flexibly.

What was the response to this? You should have received something in writing.

Pastarasta1 · 05/12/2023 15:42

Yes, I have a written letter of receipt of the request and that it was successful.

OP posts:
notmorezoom · 05/12/2023 15:43

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 05/12/2023 14:57

If you have a diagnosis of anxiety that is a disability.
Why not request the days from home on the basis it is an accommodation for disability?

Not automatically - that's a legal definition, not a medical one.

Neriah · 05/12/2023 15:56

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 05/12/2023 14:57

If you have a diagnosis of anxiety that is a disability.
Why not request the days from home on the basis it is an accommodation for disability?

I hate barrack room disability lawyers. Anxiety is NOT a disability. With a few exceptions (cancer, heart disease) NO health condition is a disability. A disability is determined in law by the impact, not by the diagnosis. The condition must have lasted, or be expected to last for 12+months AND must have a significant impact on day to day normal activities. If the OP can attend work Tuesday - Thursday, how exactly do they claim that their disability is such that their ability to attend work is only impacted on a Monday and a Friday? Have you any idea how claiming you need a "long weekend" because you have anxiety / disability will look? It doesn't matter that the OP is working from home those days - what it will look like is very different.

If the OP does not have a formal flexible working agreement - and I am confused as to whether they have or not since they have said both - then they need to make one, and they need to do so honestly, not ride on the back of a "disability" that hasn't so far prevented them from working at all. It does people who really do have disabilities (of which I am one) no service at all when someone with a health condition claim disabilities to get their own way. If the OP needed reasonable adjustments then that would have been what she posted about - not the school run, childcare, and wanting to spend time with her child.

It royally pisses me off that whenever there is a thread about disability on this site there's a pile on of "people claiming PIP are frauds" and "people don't really need blue badges, they are all liars", but the minute someone wants their own way at work, they are told that they must certainly have a disability "even if it isn't diagnosed" and to use that to get their own way. It is an insult to those of us who DO work and DO have disabilities. The OP doesn't want to work flexibly for their health, they want to work flexibly for their child. At least have the decency to tell the truth.

Neriah · 05/12/2023 15:58

Pastarasta1 · 05/12/2023 15:42

Yes, I have a written letter of receipt of the request and that it was successful.

I am now going to ask a stupid question. Before you posted here, given that you now do appear to have a written agreement to vary your terms, did you actually point out to your manager that YOUR arrangement is agreed and theerfore your contract? You did discuss this with them, didn't you?