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Original poster

HR question: Probation extended after deadline

84 replies

WanOvaryKenobi · 27/08/2023 16:32

Hello 👋,

Seeking a bit of advice here.

I started a new role 14 weeks ago that has a three month notice period. The contract wording is:

"Your probationary period is specified in section X (which says 3 months). Should either you or the company wish to terminate your employment during your probationary period, the notice required will be one week. Your probationary period may be extended at the direction of the company."

The notice period beyond probation is 3 months.

So this week my manager informed me that my probation was to be extended, 2 weeks after the 3 month probation period.

I have to be honest I was completely blindsided by this as I have a weekly 1-2-1 with this person and there has never been anything negative raised. Yet at my last meeting they announced that they still needed more time to decide, and in particular I needed to finish a strategy document, and a few issues with my "engagement" and "not being bubbly enough". Again, nothing along these lines has ever been raised in any of the 12 previous 1-2-1s.

As for the strategy document I was told to put it to the side for a few weeks to focus on bigger projects that had tight deadlines. I was never informed that passing my probation was contingent on completing this strategy document. In fact the opposite, I have been told that it is not a priority. If I had been informed of the consequences on my probation I would have worked a lot more extra hours. I'm also just shocked that there have been any issues with my performance or attitude as this has never come up before.

I now have a few questions as a one week notice period is extremely stressful.

I basically want to know if they are able to extend my probation period after the deadline has ended, and with no prior warnings or written confirmation. I have still not been asked to sign anything and some of the feedback, like being "bubbly" and "engaged" feel a bit like subjective measures to improve on rather than concrete achievements, and again these issues have never come up before. So it is not a clear performance improvement plan or official document and I don't want to be blindsided again.

I am also wondering if they do try to sack me if I am entitled to three months notice/pay. I have been looking at other cases and it does seem to me that they have to inform you before the probation period has ended if they are going to extend. Also, my contract does not say I need verbal or written confirmation when this period has passed so it feels like this is done automatically.

Any advice? Thanks.

OP posts:
Loopytiles · 15/09/2023 06:18

There should be a grievance policy but if not you could just email your boss’s boss and keep it short and factual.

no unfair dismissal rights for two years, except sex discrimination. You do now have the 3 months notice period if they fire you

I wouldn’t quit until you have a good job lined up.

PaterPower · 15/09/2023 08:30

“no unfair dismissal rights for two years, except sex discrimination”

That statement is incorrect.

Regardless, OP, you’ve had the comments about your charity work (specifically the community it involves), the criticisms about speaking Hindi, the belittling asides in private and the public haranguing you’re getting.

All of that would give you a strong case for claiming racial discrimination, which is unlawful and applies regardless of how long you’ve been in role. Are you one of only a few employees of your heritage in this manager’s reporting line? How does he/she treat his other staff?

Have you reported any of his comments to HR? Are they aware of the bigger picture here? I’m a bit surprised they’re not bricking themselves and reining the manager in. A successful race discrimination claim would really not look good for the company.

I hope you’re looking for another job anyway, but as PP have suggested, you should be gathering as much evidence as you can of his behaviour towards you, including noting down anything he says in private to you. Contemporaneous notes will help you if you pursue this to a tribunal.

disclaimer: IANAL, but there are plenty of good free sources of info on the web.

Loopytiles · 15/09/2023 08:33

It’s not incorrect, apart from discrimination (race, sex etc) and a few other things OP has no recourse should she be fired.

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 15/09/2023 08:46

Hope you’re keeping solid notes on everything that happens and when and what your manager does/says.

I think he realises he’s made an error hence why he’s being a prick. But he has nothing to back it up so is stuck

PaterPower · 15/09/2023 12:02

“It’s not incorrect, apart from discrimination (race, sex etc) and a few other things”

IOW, not just sex then, per your pp.

Not looking to be an arsehole about it, btw, just pointing out that, from some of the comments he’s made to her, the OP would have a case to take to tribunal despite her short length of service as this manager would appear to have an issue with her racial heritage.

On a different note, I’m surprised that any vaguely competent HR ‘professional’ wouldn’t have questioned the basis for the PIP with the manager, given OP’s previously strong work and lack of prior intervention.

HR bods can gaslight us all to their hearts’ content about how PIPs are really about helping the employee, but anyone not born yesterday knows that they’re overwhelmingly used as a tool to manage people out of the workplace.

Original poster
WanOvaryKenobi · 18/09/2023 14:14

Spoke to HR for an informal chat. I've been told I have grounds for a grievance but been told it will be difficult for everyone involved and have been offered mediation.

OP posts:
PaterPower · 18/09/2023 15:44

”..told it will be difficult for everyone involved and have been offered mediation.”

Well they would say that, wouldn’t they!

Assuming you’ve not got to the point where you just want to leave anyway (and make a claim for constructive dismissal - even this useless HR has admitted you have a case), then you need to think about what result would put things right for you here.

For instance, at a very minimum, they need to rescind the PIP and wipe your record clean of any ‘doubt’ over your performance to date. Then you should consider whether you can continue working directly for this manager. If not, is there one of his colleagues you could report to instead?

Who will conduct the mediation? Internal HR or an outside professional? I think it should be someone external to ensure neutrality. They’d be getting off extremely cheaply if you agreed to it, given you’d be due at least some compensation for constructive dismissal and they’d get a hit to their reputation.

If you’d wanted to milk this, you could have gone on sick leave with stress, lined up another job and left as soon as you had a start date confirmed, then taken them through tribunal.

poetryandwine · 18/09/2023 16:48

Thinking of you, OP. Stay strong as you decide what’s in your best interests.

Ponderence · 18/09/2023 16:50

Wonder if your male counterparts have to be ‘bubbly’?

WhatapityWapiti · 18/09/2023 23:38

I’m struggling to think what sort of job could require a person to have both the skills to write a strategy paper and require them to be “bubbly”. Fully agree that any requirement for “bubbliness” is misogynistic shit. Good luck OP.

Woush · 19/09/2023 00:16

Interesting thread. I suspect the manager feels professionally threated by you

HundredMilesAnHour · 19/09/2023 10:25

WhatapityWapiti · 18/09/2023 23:38

I’m struggling to think what sort of job could require a person to have both the skills to write a strategy paper and require them to be “bubbly”. Fully agree that any requirement for “bubbliness” is misogynistic shit. Good luck OP.

Consulting.

Original poster
WanOvaryKenobi · 19/09/2023 22:58

PaterPower · 18/09/2023 15:44

”..told it will be difficult for everyone involved and have been offered mediation.”

Well they would say that, wouldn’t they!

Assuming you’ve not got to the point where you just want to leave anyway (and make a claim for constructive dismissal - even this useless HR has admitted you have a case), then you need to think about what result would put things right for you here.

For instance, at a very minimum, they need to rescind the PIP and wipe your record clean of any ‘doubt’ over your performance to date. Then you should consider whether you can continue working directly for this manager. If not, is there one of his colleagues you could report to instead?

Who will conduct the mediation? Internal HR or an outside professional? I think it should be someone external to ensure neutrality. They’d be getting off extremely cheaply if you agreed to it, given you’d be due at least some compensation for constructive dismissal and they’d get a hit to their reputation.

If you’d wanted to milk this, you could have gone on sick leave with stress, lined up another job and left as soon as you had a start date confirmed, then taken them through tribunal.

This whole thing has been a nightmare. In looking over my notes I've found a dozen times where I have had contradictory feedback with multiple slides going in and out over time and constant "I don't like the format of that slide". It's all so bloody subjective and I've been completely set up to fail.

There has been a mandatory company wide meeting about "values and culture" this week from the very top. The plot thickens.

OP posts:
PaterPower · 20/09/2023 07:52

So what have you decided to do? Have you sent your CV off / applied for other jobs or are you going to wait and see what happens? Have you accepted mediation?

I hope you’re being proactive, because I’m not sure that a company-wide talk about values (unless they’ve spoken to your manager more clearly in the background and you can’t know that’s the case) is going to stop this guy’s treatment / perception of you.

Original poster
WanOvaryKenobi · 21/09/2023 18:35

I have started to look for other work.

I put everything so far in writing to the manager and had a phone call where they were extremely defensive about the racist comments. The full email also detailed every single failure of process and all of the contradictory feedback, changing priorities, lack of attention on the metrics I have sent, everything.

HR phoned me today as planned for an update and they have independently decided to do an investigation. I'm of course concerned that the manager is going to continue to gaslight me about it all but at least the fact I haven't immediately raised a grievance shows I'm not being malicious. Will keep updating this thread!

OP posts:
PaterPower · 21/09/2023 19:25

Well done OP.

poetryandwine · 21/09/2023 19:56

Great news all around OP

Gothambutnotahamster · 21/09/2023 20:41

Well done Op!

Original poster
WanOvaryKenobi · 23/09/2023 22:37

Interesting update. The HR person I have been dealing with has just quit and they are advertising for the role looking for specific experience in dealing with grievances, coaching, and disciplinary actions.

OP posts:
Newestname002 · 24/09/2023 00:59

Well there's a surprise! 🌹

poetryandwine · 24/09/2023 11:08

I think they are scared of you, OP. That’s basically good news.

Original poster
WanOvaryKenobi · 24/09/2023 13:46

I've also been recommended a solicitor and will contact them tomorrow.

OP posts:
Gothambutnotahamster · 24/09/2023 14:30

WanOvaryKenobi · 24/09/2023 13:46

I've also been recommended a solicitor and will contact them tomorrow.

Definitely a good idea. Hope you've been documenting everything also and forward to yourself any docs you need to support your stance as they could suddenly decide to terminate all your accesses, so get your house in order before then.

poetryandwine · 24/09/2023 14:30

Great ! I was going to ask about that but I didn’t want to push

Type2whattodo · 24/09/2023 14:53

Print or forward everything to a personal email right now as they are likely to revoke our access and you'll lose it.
I don't think you can claim constructive dismissal normally in the first 2 years but believe for racism it's different and you can.

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