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Original poster

HR question: Probation extended after deadline

84 replies

WanOvaryKenobi · 27/08/2023 16:32

Hello 👋,

Seeking a bit of advice here.

I started a new role 14 weeks ago that has a three month notice period. The contract wording is:

"Your probationary period is specified in section X (which says 3 months). Should either you or the company wish to terminate your employment during your probationary period, the notice required will be one week. Your probationary period may be extended at the direction of the company."

The notice period beyond probation is 3 months.

So this week my manager informed me that my probation was to be extended, 2 weeks after the 3 month probation period.

I have to be honest I was completely blindsided by this as I have a weekly 1-2-1 with this person and there has never been anything negative raised. Yet at my last meeting they announced that they still needed more time to decide, and in particular I needed to finish a strategy document, and a few issues with my "engagement" and "not being bubbly enough". Again, nothing along these lines has ever been raised in any of the 12 previous 1-2-1s.

As for the strategy document I was told to put it to the side for a few weeks to focus on bigger projects that had tight deadlines. I was never informed that passing my probation was contingent on completing this strategy document. In fact the opposite, I have been told that it is not a priority. If I had been informed of the consequences on my probation I would have worked a lot more extra hours. I'm also just shocked that there have been any issues with my performance or attitude as this has never come up before.

I now have a few questions as a one week notice period is extremely stressful.

I basically want to know if they are able to extend my probation period after the deadline has ended, and with no prior warnings or written confirmation. I have still not been asked to sign anything and some of the feedback, like being "bubbly" and "engaged" feel a bit like subjective measures to improve on rather than concrete achievements, and again these issues have never come up before. So it is not a clear performance improvement plan or official document and I don't want to be blindsided again.

I am also wondering if they do try to sack me if I am entitled to three months notice/pay. I have been looking at other cases and it does seem to me that they have to inform you before the probation period has ended if they are going to extend. Also, my contract does not say I need verbal or written confirmation when this period has passed so it feels like this is done automatically.

Any advice? Thanks.

OP posts:
Madeinessex · 28/08/2023 05:14

I don’t work in HR, but my understanding was that you pass by default at the end of the 3 months if nothing has been said at the 3 month mark.

The notice period in probation is generally shorter that your normal notice period. Ours is 1 week during probation and 1 month once probation is passed. Why do you think they will pay you 3 months money? Is it in your contract?

Is there a HR dept you can approach?

You definitely need objectives made clear. They do seem very subjective.

Is this somewhere you really want to stay in a job?

Rafting2022 · 28/08/2023 05:17

Look for a new job, they sound awful.

Jobquestion · 28/08/2023 05:30

Is being bubbly a requirement in the job contract? I 'd be out if there if I received that feedback. Don't even try to start being "bubbly".
How humiliating. And also possibly sexist. Can't imagine a man being asked to be bubbly.
Unless it's an acting job or nightclub host or something.

Ohyousillybilly · 28/08/2023 06:02

Contact ACAS for further advice and ensure that everything is properly documented on your side. It's very unprofessional of the manager to focus on subjective areas such as lack of a bubbly personality. The probationary period is there to determine whether you can do the job.

BeMoreBarbie · 28/08/2023 07:42

You don't just pass probation and not look back. You should be receiving a letter that states you have passed. However, if there is a reason to extend probation, this needs to be raised prior to the probation deadline so that you are aware and can make the necessary improvements.

Things do seem to take a long time in HR so the delay happens but is not OK.

Not being bubbly enough is bullshit but if they said that you don't seem enthusiastic would that fit?

Did the strategy document have a deadline? Have you misread the "put it to the side" as it's not as important but still needs to be done? Are they expecting a realistic amount of work be done?

BeMoreBarbie · 28/08/2023 07:44

Also, after probation your notice may be 3 months but I'd be shocked if the notice they give you would also be three months. It's usually less. 3 months is a bullshit notice period anyway unless you're extremely senior. I just left a place that had three months and I gave them one. It's unfair on the average worker and is just them taking the piss.

TiredInPerpetuity · 28/08/2023 07:51

Do you have any of this conversation in writing from them? If not, I'd be tempted to summarise it in email to then something like...

"Following our convo, I was surprised to find you'd like to extend my probation period given that no issues had been raised during my previous 121s...

One of the reasons for this was due to me not being "bubbly" enough. For my understanding, can you please quantify how this is measured so that I can be clear what it is im working towards?"

Obviously; more formal than that. I'd summarise the rest of the conversation so there's no quibble on what was said in the future. I'd then speak to ACAS for some advice. I'd be so interested to see how they quantify bubbly enoughHmm

Aprilx · 28/08/2023 09:28

There are not four weeks in a month, so the dates are important here. If you started 14 weeks ago, is that 22nd May? And if so, where you told your probation would be extended on or before 22nd August?

If you were not told anything when the three calendar months ended, then you passed probation by default and you should be very firm on that. The case law precedent you could drop into conversation is Przybylska vs Modus Telecom Limited EAT 6 Feb 2007. The ET Appeal ruled that by allowing the probationary period to pass without extending or dismissing the employee, the employer lost the right to dismiss the employee with one week's notice.

Aprilx · 28/08/2023 09:35

BeMoreBarbie · 28/08/2023 07:44

Also, after probation your notice may be 3 months but I'd be shocked if the notice they give you would also be three months. It's usually less. 3 months is a bullshit notice period anyway unless you're extremely senior. I just left a place that had three months and I gave them one. It's unfair on the average worker and is just them taking the piss.

A three month notice period is extremely common and most notice periods are equal sided. It isn't unfair on the employee, it can be greatly beneficial to the employee, for example if they are being dismissed! I would expect somebody very senior to have a 6 month notice period.

Original poster
WanOvaryKenobi · 28/08/2023 12:03

Hi everyone,

Got a bit of a strange update today. HR phoned to confirm my notice period is 3 months. I'm on the phone to ACAS now.

OP posts:
Original poster
WanOvaryKenobi · 28/08/2023 12:09

Damn, they are closed for the bank holiday.

I'm really freaking out now! Not sure why HR phoned to confirm my notice period. They were very friendly.

OP posts:
Original poster
WanOvaryKenobi · 28/08/2023 12:10

Aprilx · 28/08/2023 09:28

There are not four weeks in a month, so the dates are important here. If you started 14 weeks ago, is that 22nd May? And if so, where you told your probation would be extended on or before 22nd August?

If you were not told anything when the three calendar months ended, then you passed probation by default and you should be very firm on that. The case law precedent you could drop into conversation is Przybylska vs Modus Telecom Limited EAT 6 Feb 2007. The ET Appeal ruled that by allowing the probationary period to pass without extending or dismissing the employee, the employer lost the right to dismiss the employee with one week's notice.

17th May. Told about extension on the 24th August.

OP posts:
ProtectorExtraordinaryOfTheCantonsOfNim · 28/08/2023 12:17

WanOvaryKenobi · 28/08/2023 12:09

Damn, they are closed for the bank holiday.

I'm really freaking out now! Not sure why HR phoned to confirm my notice period. They were very friendly.

Possibly because HR knows that your manager can't extend your probation period once 17 August has already passed and this is their acknowledgement of that.

If HR are any good, they WILL know that so it ought to be a formality for you to explicitly confirm with them tomorrow.

Aprilx · 28/08/2023 12:18

WanOvaryKenobi · 28/08/2023 12:10

17th May. Told about extension on the 24th August.

Show quote history

Then you have passed probation by default and your notice period is three months. Perhaps HR confirmed this to you because you queried it? What are they doing working BH Monday? What are you talking to ACAS about?

Original poster
WanOvaryKenobi · 28/08/2023 12:19

Aprilx · 28/08/2023 12:18

Then you have passed probation by default and your notice period is three months. Perhaps HR confirmed this to you because you queried it? What are they doing working BH Monday? What are you talking to ACAS about?

Show quote history

This was my thinking. I've not put anything in writing or spoken to HR until they phoned to confirm the notice period just now. I wanted to speak to ACAS to see what my options are. The way I see it they've messed up so I can either not rock the boat or go for what I see as the nuclear option and call out management. This is so stressful!

OP posts:
Original poster
WanOvaryKenobi · 28/08/2023 12:20

ACAS are closed for BH. HR just phoned to confirm 3 months.

OP posts:
Aprilx · 28/08/2023 12:24

WanOvaryKenobi · 28/08/2023 12:19

This was my thinking. I've not put anything in writing or spoken to HR until they phoned to confirm the notice period just now. I wanted to speak to ACAS to see what my options are. The way I see it they've messed up so I can either not rock the boat or go for what I see as the nuclear option and call out management. This is so stressful!

Show quote history

I really don't think you need to do anything. I cringe whenever I read the mumsnet "call them out", nobody ever says this in real life. Anyway I digress.

Your manager made a mistake, HR clarified and corrected it, managers don't always know the ins and outs of employment case law. I really cannot see any particular issue here, never mind a nuclear option.

Although I do think being told to be more "bubbly" is offensive and sexist.

Janieforever · 28/08/2023 12:24

WanOvaryKenobi · 28/08/2023 12:20

ACAS are closed for BH. HR just phoned to confirm 3 months.

Did you ask them to confirm that or did they do it off their own back?

Original poster
WanOvaryKenobi · 28/08/2023 12:37

Aprilx · 28/08/2023 12:24

I really don't think you need to do anything. I cringe whenever I read the mumsnet "call them out", nobody ever says this in real life. Anyway I digress.

Your manager made a mistake, HR clarified and corrected it, managers don't always know the ins and outs of employment case law. I really cannot see any particular issue here, never mind a nuclear option.

Although I do think being told to be more "bubbly" is offensive and sexist.

Show quote history

This is what I am leaning towards at the moment. Technically nothing has happened as nothing is in writing. A manager has suggested that I need an extension but messed up the date. HR confirmed a three month notice period. Said my probation period would be spoken about but again they are too late. Guess I'm about to get the sack for reasons I do not know.

OP posts:
Original poster
WanOvaryKenobi · 28/08/2023 12:40

Janieforever · 28/08/2023 12:24

Did you ask them to confirm that or did they do it off their own back?

Show quote history

No they phoned me as, and maybe they are bullshitting, they were worried they had sent out a contract with a one month notice period and wanted to clarify that it was three months either way. I mentioned I was in week 15 and passed probation and they mentioned a manager would speak to me. All very, very strange.

OP posts:
Original poster
WanOvaryKenobi · 28/08/2023 12:57

Update: I have looked through all the company information and found this in an employee handbook which may change things, I'm not sure:

Your probationary period
Your probationary period will be three months, unless otherwise stated in your terms and
conditions. During this time, you will have regular check-ins with your Line Manager when your
performance will be reviewed. You should feel free to raise any concerns you may have about
your job at any time so that everything can be done to help you settle into your new job as
quickly as possible.
Where performance concerns are highlighted during your probationary period, we will continue
to do all we can to help you achieve the necessary improvement in order to be confirmed in
your role. In addition, we may decide to extend your probationary period by up to a further

three months, providing you with a clear performance improvement plan. If the necessary
improvement is not achieved within this extension, then your continued employment with the
company may be considered.

Following the successful completion of your probationary period we will confirm your
appointment with us.

OP posts:
Original poster
WanOvaryKenobi · 29/08/2023 14:56

Update: Spoke to ACAS today.

Only took a few minutes as it is absolutely clear after going through the documentation that if they try to extend the probation period they are in breach of contract.

I was advised to wait and see what they do before escalating a grievance and then speaking to a solicitor.

Manager is being an absolute CF to me today. Cutting me off in calls, shutting down any ideas, has not responded to me for a week (I have screenshots of this) and had not even acknowledged that I have sent in the strategy document that apparently my "extended probation" was beholden to.

Absolutely baffled. I've had nothing but positive interactions with this person until last week when they decided I was neither a good person nor good at my job. Not a single verbal or written warning, no KPIs set, no PIP, no issues, nothing. Nothing at all that suggested I wasn't going to pass my probation in the past 14 weeks.

One of the strangest situations I've had profes
sionally.

HR question: Probation extended after deadline
OP posts:
Janieforever · 29/08/2023 15:01

Ultimately as you’ve guessed this is about the notice period. Which they have confirmed is three months, it is irrelevant if it’s extension to probation, they can terminate your employment for Any reason up to 2 years as long as not discriminatory

im sorry but it does look like they are moving to termination .

Original poster
WanOvaryKenobi · 29/08/2023 15:05

Janieforever · 29/08/2023 15:01

Ultimately as you’ve guessed this is about the notice period. Which they have confirmed is three months, it is irrelevant if it’s extension to probation, they can terminate your employment for Any reason up to 2 years as long as not discriminatory

im sorry but it does look like they are moving to termination .

Yes I've guessed as much. Would rather have some sort of reason or chance to respond/improve on whatever it is I am doing wrong but hey ho.

OP posts:
Gothambutnotahamster · 29/08/2023 15:31

That's a terrible way to treat you Op & can leave you wondering / knock your confidence. Don't let it (if that's possible). I would now be keeping detailed notes & also documenting everything (especially the subjective comments re your personality) as these could be sex discrimination & where discrimination is involved, you don't need 2 years service.

Horrible situation to be in though, especially when you thought things were going well. Do you think the manager maybe feels threatened by you?