Can I get fired for this?

[canigetfiredforthis]

Please be kind I'm extremely stressed right now.

I started a job in relatively senior position to be told 5 weeks later I was at risk of redundancy (no fault of my own). I've been extremely stressed due to this as I was at the last place for a very long time.

Anyway I stupidly sent an email to my boss late one night (drinks had been consumed) basically saying there are loads of issues and you've messed me about massively basically. No swearing and not abusive in any way.

I recalled the message soon after I'd sent it but obviously unsuccessfully.

Anyway now they are saying they are going to fire me for gross misconduct! Can they do this?

Are you able to say any more about what the email you sent contained?

Based on what you’ve put here already yes unfortunately I think you’ve given them the perfect excuse to get rid without paying you anything. Rooky error when you know redundancies are happening!

I do understand your frustrations though, I once worked somewhere that did redundancy after a few weeks and then my next job after that made me redundant after 9 months. Infuriating!

Don’t forfeit your notice. MmIts relatively simple ti get unpaid notice money paid.

The reason for dismissal, has ti gonthrough all their internal procedures anyway.

And you can also drag that out, grievance, appeals, and of course using acas.

the 2 year rule applies of course so you can’t dispute the redundancy, but you can dispute the reason and subsequently they can be held accountable for bad references if inaccurate.

Hokding threats like that over you is unacceptable.

Without knowing what the email said, it's impossible to advise

Sorry but what sort of company puts you on redundancy notice after 5 weeks? what us their reasons?
yes what you did was shitty (I have done something similar though not after drink consumed ) and got a reprimanded many years ago but still stayed with the company for another 2 years
what training and support have you had ? like you are not there a wet week? you know after a couple of months if your good or not but not aftrr 5 weeks
we're you set up to fail ?

This is true. Except for the fact that if you took this to a tribunal you would lose. "I sent a drunken late night rant to the boss" very definitely counts as gross misconduct - gross misconduct isn't an inclusionary list of things, but a list of examples. There is not way on God's earth a drunken late night rant at the boss, no matter what the circumstances, would not be deemed gross misconduct. And on that basis, any attempt by you to take this to law might result, not in them paying you off, but in them countersuing you for costs on the basis that what you did was so obviously wrong that it could only be deemed to be a bad faith claim - and they might even win.

Sorry, it's shit what they have done, but I would strongly advise that you resign with immediate effect and hope to God that they never mention this to anyone else.

As for leaving this off your CV, that's a judgement call, but do remember that if a future employer catches you in a lie, you can be dismissed for the lie. If that is a risk you are prepared to take then that is your choice. But be clear it is a risk.

For all those saying that there must be an invetigation - no there doesn't. That might be good practice, but that is all it is. The laws that required employers to follow the ACAS guidance were repealed a long time ago. If the OP had two years service and could claim unfair dismissal then that might have a bearing on the tribunals judgement, but not definitely. In such circumstances tribunals would err twoards an expectation of some investigation. But seriously, what invetsigation are you all expecting? OP sent the email. Investigation over.

In your shoes, I wouldn't do anything. It's not worth getting worked up about it either , you've had such a short tenure it really is blink of an eye! Let's see what happens and let the company do the leg work, you were gonna get made redundant anyway so keep turning up for work, to get paid, until you do leave in whatever kind of termination it is!!

Possibly they can get you for gross misconduct depending on what was in the letter but they still need to dismiss you in a way that is ‘fair.’ Otherwise you could possibly go to tribunal.

This is what the government says about it:
https://www.gov.uk/dismiss-staff/dismissals-on-capability-or-conduct-grounds

“With gross misconduct, you can dismiss the employee immediately as long as you follow a fair procedure. You should investigate the incident and give the employee a chance to respond before deciding to dismiss them.”

A hearing needs to take place, they can't just find you guilty. Investgation hearing all takes time you could eek out a week's more money. Without knowing the content it's hard to say if it's gross or just regular misconduct.

You might have sent the email out of hours (and after a few drinks) but if, in the cold light of day, the email contents still stand as a valid grievance, I’d be inclined to tough it out. Insist on a copy of the employee handbook, and ask for specifics on the grounds for your dismissal. What have you got to lose?

I don't agree that OP would necessarily lose at a tribunal. OP said she sent an email which was "only a couple of sentences and definitely in no way threatening or abusive". She'd joined a company, having given up a role that she'd been in for a long time to take this role and, after 5 weeks, was told she was at risk of redundancy - I think any ET would be sympathetic to someone sending an email to express their frustration. Could it be misconduct? Possibly. Is it gross misconduct? Taking OP at her word that her email wasn't abusive, I think gross misconduct is a stretch and an ET would conclude that an employer in financial difficulty which was making redundancies was using gross misconduct to avoid paying notice period.

Can you check your contract and if it says "disciplinary procedures do not apply in probation" which it often does, then yes they owe you notice to terminate the contract.

It's not just me @Wexone it's the whole team / part of the business. They say they didn't know but I don't see how they could have not at least had an idea. I think I may have been used as a pawn.

I guess will ACAS be able to tell me if I have a leg to stand on as seem to be mixed views on the topic.

And how long are the rest of the team there ? taking email out sounds fishy to me. defo see what acas says

Being put at risk of redundancy has absolutely nothing to do with if she is any good at her job or not. It is the position being made redundant not the person.

yes but sorry if the department /whole team is being made redundant why hire her in the 1st place? why go though the whole expense and time of interviewing etc then to get rid if her so soon after starting ?

Don't do this. Hold out for your payment. 5 weeks is nothing, you can just leave it off your CV.

OP sent an email yes. The contents of that email may or may not be considered grounds for GM. If the email said 'you have upset me' then it wouldn't be grounds. Your assertion makes no sense

Do you like your job?

Well yes that is a conundrum. Either something quite dramatic happened after hiring her or a lack of communication between the hiring people and the people deciding on redundancies or maybe even they are just idiots.

As someone above has said, quite often companies won't (and don't need to) follow a full disciplinary procedure/investigation while an employee is still in their probationary period. The risk for the company to dismiss you at this point is very low unless there is some kind of discrimination involved, sorry OP. Sounds like you may be better off with a new company anyway, I'd be shocked to be put at risk of redundancy after only 5 weeks.

Yup

Tribunals are not sympathetic. They operate on the law. And nothing else. If you think tribunals operate on sympathy, you have never been to one.

I can't really explain without being too outing but there is a reason why they would have hired me. Not one that's in my best interests!

I've been told it's likely I'm going to have a hearing after their investigation. I don't want to work there anymore I just want my notice period and ideally not to be dismissed.

I would have probably given in but my husband is really pushing me to challenge them. Honestly they have treated me like shit so I don't really want them to just get away with it.

Sorry Op, that sounds rotten. Good luck and hope it works out for you.