To be utterly demoralised by civil service recruitment?

[MabelMoo23]

I’m currently working in an admin role after stepping down in my career due to husband’s role and family commitments. I’m now trying to improve my situation and am applying to civil service roles.

I know all about success profiles / strengths etc. I’ve researched throughly and I’m applying to HEO roles which are fractionally above what I earn now. My previous salary is that of SEO level, but I appreciate it’s tough to externally get into SEO level.

But I can’t seem to crack it. I’ve had 3 interviews so far, for different roles, two not made it, but one I got onto the reserve list after making it to the final stage and being invited to a “fireside chat”.

that was hard, to get close, but not quite close enough. So I paid for some CS coaching and to be fair, got given some really good tips - for example in STAR saying HOW you did the action bit to get the result, not what.

saw a great role, another HEO, so applied and, 2 of the behaviours were the exact same ones as the role I applied for that I got on the reserve list. I didn’t even get a bloody interview!!! So frustrating. I can’t seem to crack it.

the really frustrating thing is, for a role I ended up on the reserve list for, for this role, my score on two of those identical behaviours was a 3, (all others including CV and experience were a 4). So Which actually really means, that whilst CS recruitment is designed to be “blind” ultimately, the scoring is still subjective. And of course as a result, CS recruitment is still biased to a certain extent, because internal CS staff obviously know how to answer these questions.

but I just can’t crack it. I even paid for a session of coaching, then didn’t even get an interview and I feel utterly demoralised now and wondering if I can even face trying again with different roles. I’ve spent literally hours doing applications, I know for CS you can’t just bang out an application, you have to follow the behaviours in success profiles and give examples. I’ve researched so much, done 3 interviews, tried to learn from feedback and I’m just not cracking it.

I don’t know if it’s even worth bothering trying anymore because I genuinely don’t know what else I can do. Just feel utterly demoralised by it all. Sorry no point to this thread other than a vent

This possibly isn't what you want to hear but I'd give up. I just wouldn't be prepared to put this much effort into persuading them to give me a job. There's no need for it to be so difficult / complicated. I can't imagine wanting a job so badly that I'd keep trying after multiple knock backs.

Is there a particular reason you're so focused on CS? Or is it just the most demoralising part of your job search?

CS is not the meritocracy its marketing paints it to be. I wouldn't pin all your goals on it. What else are you exploring?

I was also wondering why so focused on CS?

TBH it sounds like a nightmare...

It’s to do with the flexibility it offers as still have to be mindful of young kids and husbands job and just trying to work my way back up in my career - not necessarily the level I was (not there has been any impact on my husband!) but even just an improvement!

Reading these responses I feel a bit embarrassed now tbh

I am a civil servant, and am trying to just move departments (same grade) and its a fecking nightmare. There is no consistency as to how scoring is applied across applications. The same behaviour examples I used to get an interview for my current job have been rejected by another department, but also got me a recent interview with another. You think you've cracked it, and then you haven't. It's so fucking exhausting 😴. If it wasn't for the pension, and flexible working, I honestly would leave the CS altogether.

Don't feel embarrassed Mabel. I'm sorry if my post contributed to you fee that way. The civil service should be embarrassed for having such ridiculous recruitment processes. If you really want this job above any other then dust yourself off and try again. Best of luck.

Years ago I was a G7 trying and failing to get a G6 promotion. Could do the jobs no problem but not the competency stuff to get me into them.

My SCS was very supportive and said "right, we're going to get you through". She rewrote one of my competencies and said she was good at them... and it scored even worse than all the ones I'd done myself!

At that point I lost all illusions that this was an objective process and realised that promotion would only come if I wrote what people wanted to read in my applications. So I imagined I was a fast-streamer with zero knowledge and a hugely inflated idea of my own brilliance, who would write up something I took for granted as a basic in my role as being some amazing achievement.

Didn't take me long to get interviews then, and I got one of those jobs.

Point: it's not about your merit as a candidate, it's only about how well you can play the competency game.

I don't get CS recruitment. It seems to be about ridiculous hoops that you have to jump through. And with a number of honourable exceptions, it doesn't seem to result in excellent candidates making the grade. It's baffling.

Not at all.
part of me thinks maybe I’m not cut out for it - but then I make sure I can genuinely do the job before applying. If anything I’m applying to jobs with salaries still below what I was previously earning!

its just the absolutely ridiculous recruitment processes!

it’s also the pension as well that is a consideration. My pension is peanuts and obviously impacted by being part time / earning a low salary so I’m just trying to better myself and improve my pension prospects.

I feel cross at myself for wasting money on a CS coaching session which is probably unfair as actually I did find it really useful and that would help in any interview - but to not even get to interview using behaviour examples that got me on the reserve list in another application is just beyond frustrating

This. I totally agree it is demoralising. I have applied for various roles in the CS, I am in the CS myself but I can't get by the sift on most occasions despite getting guidance, don't know what it is they want. You have to big yourself up, I know plenty of people who have got promotion who weren't very good at the job they were previously doing.

To be honest, the ridiculous recruitment processes are just the the tip of the iceberg. The CS is absolutely riddled with inefficient and ineffective processes and procedures, incompetent managers and policy makers that seem to go out of their way to make the simplest of things as difficult and convoluted as possible. It amazes me that anything that actually gets done 🙄

Don't be embarrassed.

I've recently joined the CS. I knew that, for my profession, it was going to provide the best mentoring and career progression available locally. So I focused everything on getting the role.

It took me a few tries to get in. Initially I applied for a HEO role, but didn't even get an interview. Then I applied for SEO, in a different division. I passed sift and pre-interview test, but scored badly at interview. Straight away I applied for another SEO role at the same division and this time I got the job.

In the last interview I focused really heavily on ticking every box on the behaviours and technical skills, working my way through each one with examples. I think this is what got me the higher score.

I know a lot of people are really fed up with working for CS, but for me it works at the moment. So I totally understand why you want to succeed at interview with them.

I think they're just utterly up their own arses OP and not worth the time of day. They've clearly decided that they don't want you without ever seeing your face or even knowing it's you, just from your application. They're a total joke and renowned for the silliest recruitment procedures of anywhere.

Thank you all - I do feel slightly better knowing it’s not actually me, but the utterly ridiculous processes. I guess it’s just always how rubbish you feel when you get rejected - and that’s the same with any job.

I refuse to accept the line though “you can’t have it all” - I’m not trying to be a CEO / Director flying all over the world, all I want to do is try and work my way back up. I currently work in admin for the NHS but there is absolutely no progression to be had there - and I also feel perception matters and if I stay at the bottom of the career ladder for too long, I’ll be pigeonholed as not being capable for anything else

I wouldn't bother tbh. The CS is a shit show at the moment and you may well regret getting in! People desperate to leave and although conditions may be ok at the moment (flexi time etc) it is being eroded really fast. Already this year my official hours have INCREASED and I suspect before long the leave entitlement will be reduced.

It really can be a shit place to work.

Is there a specific department you are interested in OP? And what type of role?

There are some that are 'easier' because they can't recruit many people. Same process but less competition, if it's relevant to you things like commercial and contact management at HEO/SEO level are in demand in a few departments (and generally have decent progression opportunities).

They may be going through the motions having earmarked someone internally for the position. There is often a lot of politics behind these recruitment decisions. I wouldn't take it personally.

I've posted on another thread that I've recently been successful at CS interview (I think you kindly congratulated me). The role is HEO, I'm probably G6/7 grade in a non CS public sector org. When I tried to apply for jobs at that level I couldn't get a look in. I've had to take a 50% pay cut. What it meant was I was wildly overqualified for the job I was offered, so the experience I brought to bear through my star examples was substantial.

The reason is because I'm now in a part of the country where the CS are a main employer, so I genuinely have less choice and have to leave my current employer (haven't resigned yet) due to relocation. I'm hoping once I've got a foot in the door, in a year or so I can look into my options to move up (if I want to). Anyway, I just wanted to say, it's not you, it's a very specific system, that while having the intention of being more equal brings its own problems.

I'm not civil service exactly but non-departmental public body. Just wanted to say, it's not you it's them.

If it makes you feel any better it took me 10 tries to get to senior grade.

I wish. We've got roles advertised externally that we havent been able to fill for 2.5yrs...

Seriously, don't take it as a reflection on you or your worth. It's about game-playing not competence.

What kind of roles are you hoping to move into? There are so many other employers (most with less ridiculous recruitment policies).

Even if private sector doesn't have the same pension, if a private sector role moves you forward in terms of progression, pay and prospects then that is still better than where you are now.

Don't give yourself a hard time. Explore other plans.

Hello there, just putting my opinion forward. Have you thought about the NHS, they offer flexible working, good pension scheme and training etc.?

I already work for the NHS in admin, I’m ridiculously overqualified (so am so bored) and there’s zero progression to be had.

i don’t actually hate my job - which I appreciate already makes me very lucky - it has flexibility as i work from home, but I’m very very isolated and am so so so bored, it’s soul destroying. I stepped down due to husband’s job and young children, but they won’t be young forever so I’m trying to work my way back up

I’ve been applying for secretariat, board secretary, private secretary roles - basically to reflect the role I’m currently doing