Can manager prevent me from going to HR?

[hairup]

I have started a new job and my line manager is best friends with 2 toxic colleague, who say horrible things about all the other colleagues.

Today my line manager disclosed something to them about an email I had sent her which encouraged them to start slagging me off in front of all my colleagues. One told me what was being said.

One of the comments amounted to how she is going to "fuck with me". I think she is going to try to sabotage my work from what I can gather.

I have been encouraged to complain to HR about the three of them, as they feel that the are bullies and get away with disclosing personal info about colleagues.

My line manager much to everyone's dismay, is being given a role soon that will make her privy to the mental health of all of us. Nobody wants to go to her for any well being ambassador, due to her indiscretions and because she is part of the bully group,

I have tried to call a meeting with her manager, but I get the feeling that I am being fobbed off. I am only allowed a group meeting with my team which includes one of the bullies tomorrow.

I do not want to stand for this as I feel I am being bullied. Can I report it to HR without the managers blessing?

Agree with posters who said union and/or ACAS. I'd even call up an employment lawyer (even if it's just a free consultation) to get ahead of things and see what your options are. I had a situation like this at work - my manager wasn't toxic as such, but protected the person sabotaging me as they were a big revenue earner and this reflected well on my manager's numbers.

HR only cared about protecting the company. Even though they went through the motions of caring about the bullying, it was abundantly clear whose 'side' they were on. They wanted me to go back to work and essentially put up and shut up, but in my case the situation had gotten so out of hand that I felt this was no longer possible, and instead focused on leaving with a neutral reference.

The people in question were extremely careful about not creating any physical record of the bullying, so it was their word against mine. Other colleagues definitely saw what was going on, but when it came down to it they wanted to keep their jobs and needed to have a good relationship with the bully going forward (bully was very powerful in the company). I was leaving anyway, so other colleagues had zero incentive to speak up for me when it came down to it, which I don't blame them for. It would've been painfully obvious who was saying what given the size of the team.

It sounds like the sabotage in your case is still more of a threat and hasn't materialised yet, which I know doesn't make it any better - it's almost worse having it hanging over your head like that.

The company I worked for was a large corporate household name with all the right procedures and HR people in place, but it didn't help me whatsoever. My advice would be to remain extremely careful about what you share with HR or anyone for that matter. Even colleagues you see as friendly. Definitely speak to union or lawyer ASAP; get a call in tomorrow if you can.

Depending on your role and the size of the company, you might be able to switch teams, but judging by my experience and that of friends who have been through similar, it's unlikely without hard proof that anyone else will be penalised. Unfortunately the onus is often on the complainant to change teams or leave.

Good luck, I know how awful this is - I hope it can still be salvaged unlike in my case.

What part of they threatened to sabotage my work today to you not understand?

I never mentioned what was said - none of knows what was said - so it's not a question of understanding anything. The boss may indeed have specified in an email to a colleague that they would sabotage your work. If so they are clearly a horrible person. But for evidential purposes it needs to be clear. And that's unusual.

The "drivel" I "spouted" was my view based on specific relevant experience. You asked a question on a public forum - and you've been answered by many. My answer to "Can I report it to HR without the managers blessing?" was "think it through".
However - no worries - your choice. It makes no odds to me.

I've also seen counter-claims of bullying when someone puts in an HR grievance, and even if your other colleague was willing to put something in writing it could backfire, e.g. "hairup and her friend are just ganging up against me" - even more reason to speak to union rep or lawyer before HR.

I'd like to think there are some companies where HR truly does protect the employees, but unfortunately I've seen so many cases where this isn't true and have rarely heard anything to the contrary. It's nothing to do with the individuals in HR being good or bad people, just how a lot of these procedures are set up in my experience.

Sorry, last thing - not saying you shouldn't or won't speak to HR at some point, just that it'd be wise to get advice on exactly what to say and how to say it.

I am so sorry about what you went through - it is so galling when the bully makes perfectly good people leave.

I totally agree with what you say about HR, I am well aware that they are there to protect the company.

I want to do it more as a professional way to make a stand. My colleague who is the witness will definitely not be called a bully. I can't say how I know this as it would be way too outing. Even if they are reading this (I really don't care about that), I'd like to protect her!

Plus because I have not been there for 2 years I'm not sure an employment lawyer or union rep or even ACAS would be able to help. I could try though.

So true @Monty27 you are very encouraging and have brought a smile to my face.

It will be interesting tomorrow, as I have to sit next to the terrible twosome 🤣

But you said that you wanted to keep the job.

Of course if you don't care about being sacked then go for it.

And what do you mean by threat?

If you want them to read this thread then that's great but most people don't want to lose their job. So that's what I was just warning you about.

But if you don't care about losing your job, then you are in the perfect position to do as much as you can about the bullies.

Just don't expect HR to do anything about the bullies
because often they just turn a blind eye. But you might be lucky and HR might do something.

You need to find a new job. This place is an insane asylum!

People aren't cowards. It's just that most people can't afford to just lose their job without having another job to go to.

If you can then you are in the perfect position to call out the bullies. But please don't think that people are cowardd. They just have bills to pay.

Yes, I like the work and my other colleagues so I wouldn't mind to staying, but not if it meant I had to put up and shut up when people are trying to bully me! I don't get intimidated by bullies.

Yeah I must admit there was a mass exodus recently and I am starting to wonder why. A manager told me it was a very bitchy place to work and there were lots of cliques in the team. Then most of them left. I wonder why! 🤣

So am I right in thinking:

• your manager said something to some colleagues about a mistake you'd made
• the manager was then 'nit-picking' your work
• every other point you've raised is fear of what might happen / something you've been told / something you have been encouraged to say by someone else?

There is no way this would be bullying. The manager would say they were checking your work because you'd made a mistake. Discussing it is not professional but not bullying. And you are being wound up by people who should know better.

If you want to pass your probabation, stop listening to gossip and try to minimise your errors so your manager will have no reason to micro manage you.

Go to HR. Be prepared to take further if need be. If you're in a union contact your rep asap for advice. If not, and you can't or don't want to join, consider contacting ACAS if they dick you about in any way.

Ignore the comment on whistle blowing. Whistle blowing has a specific meaning in employment law and what you are experiencing definitely does not fall into it. Whistleblowing is for breaches in law or regulations, concerns about health and safety etc. Whistleblowing is nothing to do with personal matters such as bullying, those should be dealt with via a grievance process.

That said, I don’t think you need to jump straight into grievance, I think it would be a good idea to talk to HR in the first instance and take your steer from how that goes. I actually feel a bit suspicious that your colleagues are encouraging you to complain whilst not doing so themselves. I would keep that in the back of your mind whilst you have this chat.

No the mistake was nothing to do with my work!

Update - had a meeting one on one and said I want it on record. I wasn't allowed to move away from them.

Then had a team meeting. Bully and her best friend my line manager tried EVERYTHING they could to get me into trouble, but it didn't work as my work was fine and I had done nothing wrong. Instead she got reprimanded. So bully asked to stay back and turned on the water works! Why do these types always turn themselves into victims. She made a big display of coming out crying and people asking her if she was alright.

Something tells me this isn't the last of this. In my experience people like this make up lies and love the drama in their boring little lies.

Now I'm going to put it on record in written form . At least they know I will fight back! Felt great today!

How's it going OP?

Hello @Monty27

It is going wonderfully, thank you very much!

The management made changes that has made life a lot better for me!

All my colleagues supported me and today the bullies felt extremely paranoid, uncomfortable and were very quiet indeed!

The only thing is now the management said that they don't want the bullies to feel horrible like I did! Maybe they shouldn't say hideous things about their colleagues then. Rolling my eyes. They mentioned the atmosphere didn't feel right today. Yes probably because I took the wind out of their sails and they weren't so cocky today.

I'm sure this won't be the end of it, but today was glorious!

Well done OP.
The air needs cleared now and that's management's responsibility.
Nobody performs well when there's an atmosphere. Get them moved

Very well done OP. So pleased that HR are taking this seriously, but their comment about the bullies not being made to feel like you did is ridiculous. That is exactly how they need to feel so that they learn how their actions make other people feel.