Can manager prevent me from going to HR?

[hairup]

I have started a new job and my line manager is best friends with 2 toxic colleague, who say horrible things about all the other colleagues.

Today my line manager disclosed something to them about an email I had sent her which encouraged them to start slagging me off in front of all my colleagues. One told me what was being said.

One of the comments amounted to how she is going to "fuck with me". I think she is going to try to sabotage my work from what I can gather.

I have been encouraged to complain to HR about the three of them, as they feel that the are bullies and get away with disclosing personal info about colleagues.

My line manager much to everyone's dismay, is being given a role soon that will make her privy to the mental health of all of us. Nobody wants to go to her for any well being ambassador, due to her indiscretions and because she is part of the bully group,

I have tried to call a meeting with her manager, but I get the feeling that I am being fobbed off. I am only allowed a group meeting with my team which includes one of the bullies tomorrow.

I do not want to stand for this as I feel I am being bullied. Can I report it to HR without the managers blessing?

Also, I want to complain about the lack of clarification and abysmal training, and then being told off for doing what another manager has told me to do.

Can I complain about that?

OK, so nobody will actually have to share anything if they choose not to?

Lots of companies are introducing roles like this, they are usually just intended as a person who has been trained in mental health first aid etc that staff can go and talk to if they are struggling. You don't have to talk to them if you don't want to.

I know but that's not really the point, some clueless colleague who has no idea about the lack of discretion might go to them. I guess that is not my problem, but quite sad nonetheless.

Yes, you can complain about anything that has happened (or not happened when it should have happened). Obviously, the more evidence you have, the stronger your case will be.

You would need to explain what was wrong with the training for example, and what additional clarification you needed to do the job properly.

Re being told off for what another manager told you to do... you would need details of what you were told to do, when, by whom etc. And then you would need to detail exactly what your manager said about it and when etc. If any of it is documented in emails etc, that will help. It's more difficult if it is all verbal because then it's just your word against hers.

I'm not sure if I have many options as this fits my needs.

I don't disagree, but as far as HR is concerned, you don't have the right to speak for the whole organisation. You can only speak for yourself. Of course, if others share your concerns and decide to submit their own grievances, then there will be a pattern and they might have to rethink whether or not this person is suitable for the role. They won't just do that on your say-so though.

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves how does one organise a collective grievance without looking like a bully myself? I think people may want to but wouldn't know how to go about it.

And what are your colleagues doing except encouraging you to be in the firing line?

Good question. I can't say that this is something that I have ever really come across. I think you would need to be careful not to be seen to be stirring up trouble, but if others have already expressed their concerns directly to you, I guess you could tell them that you're submitting a grievance and ask if they would like to do one jointly?

Be prepared though for the fact that a lot of people like to whinge behind the scenes but won't always put their complaints on record when asked to do so.

Yes I agree with this @BurntOutGirl

I'll probably get more picked on and micro managed now that I have made an initial complain. She was already nitpicking my work today, which was fine by the way but she is trying everything to undermine me.

Good grief this is the woman who will be saying yay or nay to passing my probation.

Do I have any protection at all?

Not a great deal of protection in the first two years of employment, I'm afraid. Unless you can demonstrate that there has been discrimination on the basis of protected characteristics.

I'd tread carefully if I were you. These other colleagues just might be persuading you to stick your head over the parapet on their behalf, so they can get a complaint in without it being from themselves. They are watching their own backs. You need to watch your own.

I would be very careful about what you do. Of course, in an ideal world you should be able to go to HR and they will solve this issue, but it is very difficult to do in practice especially as the indiscretion could just be seen as a mistake.

You sound quite young and you don't seem to have much experience of office politics.

If you want to keep the job, then you need to tread very carefully otherwise your bully manager will just find a way of getting rid of you.

Also, for all you know, they might be reading this thread.

Please be careful if you want to keep the job.

I agree with this OP. If you want to keep this job then you need to be very careful.

Well if they are reading it good!
What kind of threat is that supposed to be!
They need the job more than I do!

Hopefully they will see that their behaviour is disgusting and their colleagues think they are vile.

So by office politics do you mean put up and shut up? I'd rather be sacked by the bully.

I also agree that you would potentially be putting your job at risk, especially if your evidence of any wrongdoing is flimsy. There is a distinct possibility that you will just be seen as a trouble maker. This is why, if you do complain, it's really important that you focus on issues that affect you directly and factual statements only - no wider office gossip and no speculation about what your manager might do wrong in the future.

Having thought about it some more, I can't really see how a collective grievance could work in this situation as your complaints will all be quite individual. It isn't something like a change to terms and conditions that might affect everyone in the same way. So if your colleagues have similar complaints, it would be better for them to put their own separate grievances in. They might not, of course.

Everybody is sick of hearing them slag off a colleague member, as soon as they leave their chair. Am I allowed to complain about that?

You seem to be a bit over the place. The mental health ambassador is a bit of box ticking, the role literally is about sign posting people to appropriate sources of help. Not becoming someone's therapist.

You can't submit a collective grievance, I think I'd put money on you trying to call for witnesses to your case, your supportive colleagues will disappear into the ether.

You're best bet is to get out and find something else. It's not going to worth the hassle.

You do sound quite naive and inexperienced, OP. That's not a criticism by the way. Just an observation.

If you would genuinely prefer to be sacked than keep quiet about this, then by all means, go ahead with your grievance. That is a perfectly valid position. People are just warning you, quite rightly, that you might put your job in jeopardy by going down this route. I'm not saying that's right, but it's the truth. It's for you to decide if you're willing to take that risk.

@SpeccyHotdog oh yes I agree with that to an extent but I do have a witness however for the shenanigans today.

Genuinely thank you for the advice.

I don't get what is naive about not caring if I get sacked if it means standing up for myself, however.

You can't complain that everyone is sick of anything. You don't have the right to speak for anyone but yourself.

You can say that you're sick of it, if you like, but I don't that anyone will be particularly interested in this. If the colleague being "slagged off" wants to put in a complaint, then that's up to them.

If the manager has done stuff that directly affects you, then that's your grievance. You need to stop talking about what "everyone" feels. You can't possibly know that.

No I'm allowed to complain that I am sick of it I meant

No I don't want to hear people being talked about in an abhorrent crude way. It's affects me.