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Original poster

Informal performance management-help!

101 replies

chickensinthebed · 04/01/2023 19:20

Hello everyone,

NC as this post is identifying.

I was out on an informal performance management plan a couple of months ago due to some silly misunderstandings and silly reasons (in my view) but my line manager has taken a dislike to me and probably wants me out of the job.

Anyway, I applied for a senior position within my current team (didn't get it- obviously as my manager was conducting the interviews)- this was also before I knew I was on an informal performance plan. So I applied for the same senior position, but in another specialist area, elsewhere and I got the job. I have handed in my notice but my manager said that she will need to inform HR whether she will need to inform my new job that I am currently on an informal performance plan. Can she inform my new job this?

Also- I didn't inform HR about my new job and I did not use HR as my reference. Will HR know about the new job I'm going to.

OP posts:
RewildingAmbridge · 04/01/2023 19:22

In my line of work you're not eligible for promotion or a sidestep if on a performance improvement plan unless it's redeployment because of a capability/ill health capability hearing. Also not eligible for pay increments in current role unless the PIP is completed before year end

RewildingAmbridge · 04/01/2023 19:23

Hold on is the new job with another employer or just a different department?

converseandjeans · 04/01/2023 19:23

Is it a job with a different company? If so I don't think technically you're allowed to give someone a bad reference.

In teaching we have to inform the head if we plan to go for another job, so it's never a secret. It's then awkward if you don't get it. However in other professions I can't see why your manager would need to know until you give your notice in.

Did you put your current manager as your referee?

Edinburghmusing · 04/01/2023 19:25

If it’s a new job with someone else my understanding is thst they’re opening themselves up to a legal action by giving that sort of info - especially given the context of it

if it’s at the same organization depends on the policies really

biss sounds like a dick

Original poster
chickensinthebed · 04/01/2023 19:27

Did you put your current manager as your referee?

No! I had the common sense not to. I used someone else, who is also senior, as a reference.

OP posts:
Original poster
chickensinthebed · 04/01/2023 19:27

Yes sorry the new job is within a different company.

OP posts:
catmademedoit · 04/01/2023 19:29

In some industries you must have your current line manager as first reference and in others ( health ) all references go through HR

Sunsetintheeast · 04/01/2023 19:29

No such thing as ‘informal’. It either is or it isn’t. Where are the records, the structure and frankly the legal process that was followed. If any of that is missing I’d be very clear that I’d be seeking redress for ANY action on her part, regardless of impact.

Canyoudigityesyoucan · 04/01/2023 19:29

The HR of your current team cannot mention this in a reference unless they are explicitly asked by the new hiring HR. And that would be very unlikely and unusual.

A reference is usually just confirmation of the role you’re leaving, it’s factual and just normally covers dates and job titles.

Sounds like your current boss doesn’t really know what they’re talking about and is trying to shit you up.

Sunsetintheeast · 04/01/2023 19:30

She’s a cunt. I’d threaten legal action and I have a VERY VERY good lawyer. If you want to wave her name around.

VimFuego101 · 04/01/2023 19:30

Sunsetintheeast · 04/01/2023 19:29

No such thing as ‘informal’. It either is or it isn’t. Where are the records, the structure and frankly the legal process that was followed. If any of that is missing I’d be very clear that I’d be seeking redress for ANY action on her part, regardless of impact.

Exactly this. Performance plans should be documented and there should be a clear paper trail. I would discuss with HR exactly what is on your record.

Original poster
chickensinthebed · 04/01/2023 19:31

catmademedoit · 04/01/2023 19:29

In some industries you must have your current line manager as first reference and in others ( health ) all references go through HR

Oh I see! Thankfully, I didn't need to use my line manager as a reference.

But what I want to know will HR (where I'm currently at) tell my line manager where my new job is. Knowing my line manager, she will let me new job know.

OP posts:
catmademedoit · 04/01/2023 19:33

I don't think she is allowed to do that

As PP said .. references should confirm dates and role

They may ask if you have ever been involved in a disciplinary but as that looks like a no you shouldn't have any problems?

Original poster
chickensinthebed · 04/01/2023 19:33

Sunsetintheeast · 04/01/2023 19:30

She’s a cunt. I’d threaten legal action and I have a VERY VERY good lawyer. If you want to wave her name around.

I don't understand.

She said I am on an informal performance management plan and if I don't meet the objectives, then I will be placed on a formal management plan.

I have had to have meetings with her every two weeks as part of my performance plan and I have a list of objectives that I need to meet.

OP posts:
Original poster
chickensinthebed · 04/01/2023 19:36

@VimFuego101

I'm becoming confused now.

There is a paper trail. I have a management plan document which states the objectives and time frames... and it also includes our meeting discussions.

OP posts:
Original poster
chickensinthebed · 04/01/2023 19:38

@Sunsetintheeast

Sigh. I'm not getting it. I don't understand.

OP posts:
Sunsetintheeast · 04/01/2023 19:40

chickensinthebed · 04/01/2023 19:36

@VimFuego101

I'm becoming confused now.

There is a paper trail. I have a management plan document which states the objectives and time frames... and it also includes our meeting discussions.

Well that’s formal then. What she means is that it’s not on the recognised ‘warnings’ system. I think there is some confusion around the vocabulary being used

‘Informal’ doesn’t exist at work. What you’ve described is a performance improvement plan. You’ve not entered the more formal
process that leads to dismissal.

Edinburghmusing · 04/01/2023 19:41

You need to simply tell her very clearly that if she communicates with your new company - or has anyone else communicate with you new company - you will be taking swift and immediate legal action.

i would write that clearly in an email myself.

SwedishEdith · 04/01/2023 19:41

Hanging on to staff on performance management plans always seems like bad policy to me. If staff are unhappy/underperforming, let them go elsewhere. Not so great for those on the receiving end, of course, but a new boss/team can often create a fresh start.

Edinburghmusing · 04/01/2023 19:41

It doesn’t matter if it’s formal or informal - she should not be saying anything about you to a separate company

Original poster
chickensinthebed · 04/01/2023 19:46

@Sunsetintheeast

Thank you. That's what she meant but she kept calling it an 'informal management plan' as that term didn't come up when I was researching it.

But I don't even think I should be on one. But that's another story.

OP posts:
Original poster
chickensinthebed · 04/01/2023 19:47

Edinburghmusing · 04/01/2023 19:41

You need to simply tell her very clearly that if she communicates with your new company - or has anyone else communicate with you new company - you will be taking swift and immediate legal action.

i would write that clearly in an email myself.

Thank you. She just sent me the notes from the last meeting. I will write in an email what you have said. But how can I word it in a nice way since I'm leaving the company in a months time.

OP posts:
Quveas · 04/01/2023 19:48

There's so much rubbish on this thread it's hard to know where to start.

Of course an employer can give a bad reference. They must give a truthful reference and if the truth is "bad" then tough luck.

Some employers only give basic factual references. Others provide more detail. Some are legally obliged to give references. And if they aren't obliged to, no employer must give one.

And if your manager has raised performance concerns, and started to informally set targets and monitor performance, of course they can do that. Informal monitoring is nothing except doing their job - checking their employees are performing to requirements. Whether you like it or agree with it is neither here nor there. If you think you are being unfairly treated, that is for what grievances are for.

girlmom21 · 04/01/2023 19:49

Sunsetintheeast · 04/01/2023 19:30

She’s a cunt. I’d threaten legal action and I have a VERY VERY good lawyer. If you want to wave her name around.

Yep say "thanks boss, that's great. It'll really support my constructive dismissal case!"

Sunsetintheeast · 04/01/2023 19:49

Either way she’s not entitled to share this information with another company. I have no idea if this is true but I’d suggest to her that any action on her part as an individual would breach the GDPR rules and such a breach could lead to legal action. Should shut her up.

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