Doctoring of sick note? How serious is this?

[Lushmetender]

I have a staff member on second sick note. I should of got it at beginning of month. Have asked many times and we nearly had to send an awol letter. I thought finally it’s come in and I received it today but it’s clear to me the date of the note has been tampered with. It’s clear it’s been dated mid month but 3 digits have been tippexed out to make it look like the 1 st of the month. Eg looks as though it was a double digit say 14 - but the ‘4’ has been tippexed out. This could have been done by the drs surgery but usually they score out and initial it or could have been done by the employee. How seriously would you take this. Sadly I think the person is malingering and seems to be copying a co colleague who eventually got a pay out. I have asked HR what they think but wondered if anyone had a similar situation?

I was off sick for an extended period, I just scanned in my sick notes and emailed them HR. I still have the originals and it was 12+ months ago.

Oops hadn't finished!

Also if employee is off suffering from mental health issues, following on from a toxic work situation, and as one of several in the same situation, then I think you would be on dodgy ground to attempt to discipline. I'd contact the employee and give them the opportunity to correct it.

Same thoughts here. Sounds to me it's the signature/issued date that appears to have been changed. I can easily see someone with work-related MH issues being asked 'many times' for a fit note going into 'panic mode' to submit something that they think will satisfy the manager who has made 'many' requests and who seems, to me at least, to be itching to issue an AWOL letter.

Could be wrong, though, but as the OP appears to have disappeared I guess we'll never know! 😉

I can believe a manager coming on Mumsnet about this in an organisation where an employees has raised grievances against management (with sufficient evidence to be paid off by the company, who obviously didn't want to go to tribunal for fear of losing) and several employees are off sick with mental health reasons. It doesn't sound like the most organised and professionally run company. From the title the focus doesn't seem to be what they can do about the situation of several potential malingerers and what's wrong with the company and its policies which has caused/allowed this to happen. OP seems more concerned with if they have an excuse to fire this employee immediately or not.

Of course you can. We require the original. Full stop. There is no ownership involved. You want paying? You do what we say.

I've written to a GP surgery before (on headed paper, not an email) with a copy of the notes and asked them to confirm the dates - which they did.

This! Totalky unacceptable and a complete breakdown in doctor / patient relationship. Also report to NHS Fraud team!

This! Totalky unacceptable and a complete breakdown in doctor / patient relationship. Also report to NHS Fraud team!

Calm down FGS. It's not fraud agains the NHS for a start. Get a grip.

I have been a GP for 20 years. This happens from time to time - usually it's due to stupidity. Usually it's someone who actually was signed off sick or legitimately could have been, but has somehow ended up with a certificate for the wrong date. Sometimes they are amending it because the GP has put the wrong date.

If the OP is for real, she needs to establish what actually happened.

Obviously need facts before you do anything.

If you look at historical pulse articles you will see that changing med certs is fraud.

NHS counter fraud look into believe it or not fraud. Fraud is deception carried out for personal gain, usually for money. Fraud can also involve the abuse of a position of trust

I'm surprised you have so little respect for yourself as a medical professional to think that a patient changing a med cert is acceptable.

They are supposed to send in the original. For this reason. And it is serious.

Doctors sick notes are pretty easy to obtain aren't they? I can’t see why someone would risk this. I’ve never known a doctor to deny an extended sick leave if the patience says they need more time. Just my experience though.

You'd go out of your way to go to an employer for the sick note? Really? What about just talking to the patient - YOUR patient, to find out their perspective first?!
I would never trust a GP who went running around behind my back. This note could just be damaged or something. Benefit of the doubt.
Maybe you should have gone into the police service

Decent doctors don't give out sick notes on demand. You'd be amazed at the things that my patients think they need 6 months off work for......

@passport123 The thing is people rarely see the same GP now. & if they get signed off for say 1 month, then go back & say I’m still unwell could you sign me off for another month? I haven’t known a GP say ‘no I think you’re fit to work so I won’t sign you off.’ Of course this happens but I suspect it’s the minority. Most probably can’t be bothered with the hassle of arguing even if they don’t believe it…

In a job I had a few years ago, the employee would hand in original sick note to manager, I would photocopy it and put copy in their file and send original to HR fir their records. They surely should be giving you the original. Seems a little strange. Depends how you business deals with sick notes.

I would see you f2f for a proper conversation about whether you were unfit for all work, or some, or fully fit

Islandgirl68 The government says The employee should keep the original

Ooop here's the link... www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave

Random have you heard of the Data Protection Act or the word confidentiality?.. No way should a GP surgery should/would give out such info.

I had an issue with a sick note date, my appointment for a check/renewal was cancelled (not by me) and I couldn't get another (even by telephone) until after the fit note ran out, the Dr agreed that I needed more time off and to backdate the sick note to cover the days that would otherwise be missed - but forgot and put the day of the appointment instead, I didn't notice and forwarded on, my employer contacted me pointing it out and questioned me about it, it took me a further week to get it sorted because the surgery was so difficult to get in touch with and it took time to get a replacement with the correct dates - hardly surprising considering the issues being faced at the moment around appointments etc.
But my employer hounded me a bit tbh, and if I'd been off with MH issues and not something physical that was blatantly obvious to look at (think a potted limb!) And this had happened and I had the physical note and a way to get them off my back I might be tempted to do it, as wrong as it would be.
So I'd ask the employee to explain first and then see what is said and if HR can confirm dates with the Dr before jumping to conclusions.

Man, if I was your employer’s union rep I’d love you. You’ve done no verification yet, you have a feeling it’s untrue and you assume a culture of employees bunking off when poor line management contributing to stress, ill health and a breakdown of the trust is equally likely. Ask for the original, bring HR in and broaden your mind. Management culture is so often the problem.

Shouldn't you be asking a HR expert instead of people in a forum, it's not a HR forum

Check on the government website to check if tippex is allowed. If not, you can ask for the certificate to be issued again. Alternatively you can call the GP to ask if it is genuine, or ask HR to ask the GP.

Also, you should have a policy on how sick days are handled. They should be telling you from the first Day of their sickness that they won't be in. If they aren't doing this, it goes against policy. Also, if you has been contact inbetween, technically this isn't AWOL.

I submitted a legit Drs sick cert previously that my Dr had scribbled the date and had re-written it. My employer refused it and asked me to get another. You are entitled to ask for the original cert also, not a copy.