Doctoring of sick note? How serious is this?

[Lushmetender]

I have a staff member on second sick note. I should of got it at beginning of month. Have asked many times and we nearly had to send an awol letter. I thought finally it’s come in and I received it today but it’s clear to me the date of the note has been tampered with. It’s clear it’s been dated mid month but 3 digits have been tippexed out to make it look like the 1 st of the month. Eg looks as though it was a double digit say 14 - but the ‘4’ has been tippexed out. This could have been done by the drs surgery but usually they score out and initial it or could have been done by the employee. How seriously would you take this. Sadly I think the person is malingering and seems to be copying a co colleague who eventually got a pay out. I have asked HR what they think but wondered if anyone had a similar situation?

Do the fit note dates cover the backdated period is it just the date of signing that looks suspicious? Ask him for a new fit note the GP can backdate the dates if it is genuine delay.

Are employees jumping on the bandwagon or do they have genuine cause, is it the employer rather than the employees who are the problem?

My GP has always backdated sicknotes when I've needed them (all Covid related illness) without any difficulty. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion the person has fraudulently amended their sicknote, I'd simply ask them to resubmit it. If it is fraudulent, then it's gross misconduct, but it could just be miscommunication between the employee and the GP surgery.

Can’t you just leave it to HR to deal with? Mention your concerns but it’s for them to follow up.

We had this situation at work and the sick note turned out to be genuine. The staff member complained that he was being harassed whilst off sick and the manager got in trouble.

Based on that, I’d keep out and leave it to HR.

Firstly, ask the employee to get a better copy of the sick note from their GP because you cannot read it. Then if they refuse, do what @louloubelx suggests. They may not know whether the surgery will agree to the request or not and might resign to save you the trouble.

Shortcircuits the process.

I get your need to feel like you're 'cracking down' on this but I would try to change your attitude to giving the employee the benefit of the doubt if I were you. If people are bringing grievances against others it's not necessarily a 'coincidence' it sounds more like something actually wrong in your workplace.

Before anyone jumps down my throat I'm not suggesting you just accept a doctored sicknote but don't immediately jump to the conclusion they are fraudulent. Give them a chance to correct it and it will look better for you if this comes to a tribunal if you have evidence of you trying to help them correct it rather than coming down hard on them, especially if they're suffering from a mental illness or stress.

The GP surgery would never use tippex. If they dated it wrong they would either complete a new one, or strike through with one line and initial and date the error. I would ask for the originals. They can either send them in with a relative or post them to you.

I don't think this would be appropriate for OP to do. Send the sick note to where? To whom?

This sounds odd. Surely the Dr would have just started the sick note again on a new piece of paper? I wonder if this thread is even real tbh.

Ignore context. That's an entirely different matter if there are things to resolve.

I'd simply tell the employee I want to see the original sick note. Full stop. Take it from there. If they can't provide the original then you ask for permission to contact the GP to obtain the original. If they refuse they are absent with leave. Employers actually have a right to refuset to accept a sick note. It didn't happen often, but a suspicion it is altered is a good enough reason.

It doesn't matter what good reason someone might have to change the sick note. That is again an entirely different issue. If they have done so and have mitigation to offer in a disciplinary, that is for another day. But if you ignore your suspicion, then what do you do next time they, or someone else, does it?

Seems a coincidence all are getting sick.
all before my time but a pattern is emerging

This does not paint you in a good light.

I'm sure you can get a sick note for this if it's so bad? To keep you on topic?

You can’t insist on keeping an original fit note, it belongs to the employee. However, you can ask to SEE it and take your own copy.

THIS! OP you're walking a tightrope here. I'd be really careful.

Your starting position shouldn't be one of mistrust.

If it’s been doctored then it’s a potential gross misconduct (up to dismissal) offence.

Ive dealt with fraudulent medical notes and letters a lot over the years!

Ask to see the original. You could also ask for permission to write to the GP for a medical report on their condition and/or their GP records. If they refuse, that would be rather telling.

(and you don’t need “proof” to dismiss - just a reasonable belief in their guilt, based on a decision made on the balance of probabilities following a reasonable investigation - ie is it more likely than not that they committed the offence)

Yeah leave it to HR.

Anyone else find it hard to believe a manager would come to mumsnet for advice on a matter as serious as this? I don't know a HR body that wouldn't be all over this like a rat. If this is real, I can't help but wonder if the OP or a relative/friend of has doctored a letter and is in the process of being caught.

It is fraud. They are saying they cannot work due to illness but have provided a false document to back up their claim.

I'd be asking for the original or a new copy.

Our HR are completely useless, they wouldnt be dealing with this where I work, they would give some half baked, vague, unclear 'advice' and tell you to make a decision within that.

Normally meaning, let it go.

Sounds like the problem may be with the management and not the employee - that's the pattern emerging from your posts.

A group of school prefects could prove it though? 😂

Is this the same sick note you started a thread on in October?
leave it up to HR

HR could, or investigating manager. Most employers ask for access to medical records, and refusal would do a lot of damage to any defense of such an accusation.

As an ex Practice Manager in General Practice, a GP or clinician providing a sicknote would not use tippex.

If it was suspected that a patient had changed a med cert this should be reported to the Practice Manager. It is likely the manager would report to the NHS fraud team and they could potentially ptovide a warning to the patient or remove the patient from their practice list.

I think the first step is to ask the holder of the note " The date on your sick note is rather ambiguous; could you please confirm the date of issue?"
If they insist it says 1, you will have to ask the same question at the DR's surgery.

Insist on seeing the original. Of course it's serious.

Your management is completely useless, not HR!! Sad to see how many people think they can just thrown the shitty stuff to HR for them to sort out situations you've not managed properly!

HR are only supposed to advise and support, not do your job for you! Grow a set.

Is it only the start date of the sick note that's been altered? Does the end date run to say, the end of the month? If the date wasn't 1st of the month, would this leave a gap in cover?

I had a spell of LTS earlier this year, and one of the sick notes kept coming with the wrong start date. I had to ring 3 times to get it corrected, and it was so tiresome. Line manager was breathing down my neck to get it and it was severely tempting to just change it and send it in - only (a) I knew not to; and (b) it was typed on a pdf which was texted to me so it wouldn't have been easy to do. It could be this employee got similarly frustrated?

If the end date is still the same, then it seems a stretch to say that changing the start date is fraudulent.