Doctoring of sick note? How serious is this?

[Lushmetender]

I have a staff member on second sick note. I should of got it at beginning of month. Have asked many times and we nearly had to send an awol letter. I thought finally it’s come in and I received it today but it’s clear to me the date of the note has been tampered with. It’s clear it’s been dated mid month but 3 digits have been tippexed out to make it look like the 1 st of the month. Eg looks as though it was a double digit say 14 - but the ‘4’ has been tippexed out. This could have been done by the drs surgery but usually they score out and initial it or could have been done by the employee. How seriously would you take this. Sadly I think the person is malingering and seems to be copying a co colleague who eventually got a pay out. I have asked HR what they think but wondered if anyone had a similar situation?

They aren't allowed to do that though surely?

We checked with the surgery who confirmed the doctor didn’t make the changes to the note. They need to be aware too anyway if a patient is altering notes. There was a history of long term sickness but this pushed it to a disciplinary and they were sacked

Are you sure the pattern is what you think it is? Is it possible that there is a poor culture, stress or bullying.

At one point in my old job, there were 4 people off at the same time with stress. The employer has their theories about people 'trying it on' but actually the place was toxic and they lost a lot of staff.

As the manager you should get the originals. Make sure you do, and check for tampering. It would gross misconduct in my place if it had been tampered with.

Someone in our office was sacked for doing exactly this.

Apart from the potential dishonesty what would the surgery be disclosing?
Q: we have a fit note dated 04/11/22 for Malingerer do your records show this?
A1: yes that is correct
A2: we have no record of a fit note dated 04/11/22

I don't know about other surgeries but mine give sick notes out for anything and everything when asked. So was more likely an admin error and just wasn't backdated properly but this could just b my surgery

Ask for the original document, as the dates aren’t clear. Ask if it’s been edited.

Hold a disciplinary hearing. If the employee has fraudulently changed the dates, I’d terminate with notice paid in lieu.

The reason is dishonesty, fraudulently claiming sick pay and causing a breakdown in trust and confident.

I had this at work and called the surgery to check dates. Explained to employee we were checking and they resigned….

This is really bad. Gross misconduct at the very least.
I would leave it in the hands of HR, and tell them you need a paper copy of the fitnote without the tipex.
I have dealt with something similar, I strongly suspected the digital fitnote was faked, however could not prove it. The employee left in the end after rinsing the sickness pay policy and wasting a vast amount of my time.

I would hazard a guess that this employee is a problem and that is why you suspect they have doctored the note.

^ This.

Could you email the sick note to the issuing GP surgery and ask for confirmation it is a true copy of their record?

Someone was sacked for this at my last place.

I’m staggered employee would need to
fake a fit note - it’s practically impossible NOT to be signed off for MH by GP.

Simply read out the nhs anxiety symptoms list and tell doc that’s you.

I have once known a GP who refused a malingerer. That was for faking a knee injury - patient had walked 3 miles to the appt.

I am a GP and there is often a delay in issuing follow on sick notes purely due to demand for other /same day issues. We normally back date to original but do sometimes get dates wrong - now our notes do not get signed but the computer just adds our name so we can send via text / email or print out so I would never expect any pen / tippex as so easy to reissue.
Someone mentioned removing a patient for doing alterations we would not do this as we would see it more as an issue for employer relationship and nhse has very strict criteria for removal. The practice also wouldn’t engage with a manager on phone would need to be patient or a request for a private OT report.

i would ask them to get a correct Untampered note from surgery

We've had them as PDF's and by email over the last couple of years. Surely surgeries aren't offering paper ones in this day and age?! I'd ask the employee for a PDF version from their GP.

Presumably she means the employer would send it.

I work in HR and have dismissed for same circumstances when it was admitted as trust was broken

Having a meltdown over painting my interior doors! What's with the drips when it dries?

Also any advice of how to make an architrave less shabby and holes in? I've tried sanding, filling and painting still looks a mess.

Bf gone out sick of me.

It needs to be investigated and if it turns out there’s reasonable belief it’s been tampered with then it may be a serious disciplinary matter.

employee can refuse consent to contact doctor but employment law runs on the basis of reasonable belief so if the fit note is tampered with and in the absence of any information to the contrary or employee declining to co-operate then yes they could be dismissed.

it’s not as easy to pull the wool over an employer’s eyes as some of you seem to think.

Opppps. Wrong box :,))))

i would ask them to get a correct Untampered note from surgery

agree

if they get this - all good

if they don’t or come up with some bullshit about why they can’t - investigate further.

Why not?

If the patient doesnt give consent, the employer cant contact the gp surgery or more that the gp surgery cant communicate with the employer without the patients consent