Are my old employers allowed to give this flaky reference?

[recipw]

It seems a bit unfair.

My potential new employer has requested a reference from my old workplace.I left there in June.

They have come back with 'x was employed here from this date to this date, however, can't comment on performance much as off on maternity related sick and maternity leave for a long duration'

Is there anything I can do about this?

Thank you

Wow you poor thing, you lost your child and then your work writes you a snarky reference seeming to suggest you were a PITA because you just take loads of time off for no good reason.

They said they 'can't comment on performance much' - did they comment on your performance at all? Or was it literally just this snarky comment about how much time you took off?

OP, are you going to flow through to find out in which basis they withdrew the offer? That reference should not justify it. They should as a minimum be offering you a meeting to discuss.

How have they misled anyone?

Op says it’s accurate. As I well know, you can have maternity related absence and maternity leave, even if you child doesn’t survive.

As far as op has said she did have maternity related absence and maternity leave.

OP why have the new employers withdrawn the offer? The focus needs to be on the actions of the new employers. What reason have they provided? Was it verbally withdrawn or in writing?

I think you need to call up the new employers and ask why the offer has been withdrawn. It's it's the result of the reference they are on sticky ground.

I'm so sorry for your loss.

Try also pregnant then screwed for advice.

I've spoken to ACAS who believe it's unlawful due to disclosure of pregnancy, of which there was no agreement to disclose.

I am just about to chase up someone higher up than the manager who wrote that reference. I asked her this morning to change it and explained why, she said she didn't have the authorisation to do that once it's been submitted.

I have chased up the potential new employer and they have withdrawn their offer due to the reference - they say they can't take me on as they thought I had more experience due to that role I was in, but it seems to them I just spent it all off for pregnancy stuff

@recipw - I am pleased you have spoken to someone, I really hope things work out for you.

Jesus Christ that's fucking shocking!

What can be done now? Can you take it further? I really hope someone comes along and says yes

I am so so sorry op that's devastating. What a kick in the teeth!

This just doesn't sound right at all! Pregnancy related sickness shouldn't go on your sickness record, so to be penalised for it is wrong. I also don't believe it should have been mentioned. You've now potentially lost a job because of it! Do toy have in writing that they withdrew the offer because of the reference?

I am not even fussed to have to kiss goodbye to the job who have now declined me an offer.

What I am concerned about is this poorly worded reference following me around everywhere I go

I can see both sides. If your cv looks like you had one year's experience but you had actually only been in that role for 3 months then it can make a material difference to your competitiveness as a candidate compared to others.

The thing is OP, even if they stopped disclosing that your absence was due to pregnancy they could still legally disclose you were absent for X months.

I'm really sorry, this is a terribly hard situation for you.

How much experience did you need for the new role and are you short of that if you take your time off during pregnancy into consideration?

I am sorry for your loss.

Yeah it sounds very unprofessional and says more about them than you.

@Ekátn The OP has given an update. As I said in my post these kind of discrimination cases are complex.

@Paq If she threatens them to or actually starts action for post employment discrimination they will likely to give a fixed reference so won't be able to disclose the absence at all.

An ex-employer was never allowed to disclose I was absent as it would have exposed their discrimination and victimisation towards me.

Yes I have the same access to Mn as you do. Not sure why you feel the need to keep me updated.

No idea which post you are referring to, but if it’s the one where I disputed wether the reference was misleading. It’s not. Wether it was discrimination or not. It wasn’t misleading. The information is accurate. Wether they should have disclosed it is a different matter.

and it’s not better for op if the reference said ‘can’t comment on performance as largely absent’ or even just ignoring it.

The new employer was led to believe that Op had spent time in a certain role doing certain tasks and offered on that basis. That wasn’t the case (though I understand why op didn’t disclose it) so they have revoked the job offer.

as someone said above ACAS can and do get things wrong. Op is handling this well by going to someone higher. If she gets nowhere. Pregnant and screwed or Maternity action are better places than acas.

@Ekátn I was one of the posters who said ACAS can get things wrong and should go to a specialist charity.

Though if the OP has some money she can scrap together she is better off contacting an employment solicitor as it will be sorted out quicker.

So what was the point in you letting me know the Op had updates then?

What do you need me to see?

The information still wasn’t misleading.

@RedWingBoots - Pregnant then Screwed can get you the magical free half an hour with a specialist solicitor quite quickly who can tell you if it’s worth carrying on with the case. So I’d always recommend going through them as a first call.

So the new employers were hiring you thinking you had a certain amount of experience from your old role. You didn't manage to get the amount of experience as you were off work.

Even if your employers changed the reference to not mention the pregnancy it would still show you were not in work for that period therefore did not garner the experience the new employers want.

I really don't mean to be harsh but I'm trying to be as black and white as I can to avoid you any further unecessary stress.

If a job needs for example three years experience and I see someone has the three years on their CV but one year absent (for whatever) reason, I'm going to want someone with the actual three years experience

Scarily - assuming your wording is correct - there is no such thing as an unlawful disclosure of pregnancy. Not that rubbish advice from ACAS would surprise me. I agree with others. The issue is with the new employer potentially discriminating, but equally I note that you didn't answer a critical question- how long did you work there and how long did you have off sick? Because if they required experience that you don't have - which is what they are saying- then the pregnancy is irrelevant. The lack of experience is.

I've given a very similar reference but I must admit it's because the staff member was the flakey one. I wanted to make it clear that I wouldn't actually recommend them without actually saying it explicitly

🙃

Gosh I'm so sorry, I hadn't seen this when I replied. In sorry for your loss

This is terrible and no they shouldn’t, especially due to your circumstances of which they show no compassion but any sickness related to maternity etc does not count. In addition to rectifying this with the referee the employer who has declined you on this basis is definitely in the wrong due to your protected characteristics. Speak to ACAS

They have come back with 'x was employed here from this date to this date, however, can't comment on performance much as off on maternity related sick and maternity leave for a long duration'

@recipw in response to your question as to whether there is anything you can do:

1. Has your previous employer's reference led to any detriment, for example has it led to your new prospective employer withdrawing an offer of employment due to the negative effects of the reference. If so and you have reason to believe it, it will be worth you engaging with an employment solicitor to get their expert opinion on next steps.
2. How did you find out about the wording of the reference? Did they send you a copy of the reference (unusual)? Was it something you found out second hand or was your source someone who actually saw the words written down or heard them spoken.

to me, it reads as if your previous employer has"weaponised" your absence, due to pregnancy, against you. That is directly discriminatory because a man would not have suffered that same detriment as they don't ever have to take maternity leave nor ever suffer from pg-related sickness. Your solicitor if you choose to meet one to discuss this situation may advise you to consider taking action against them but they should ask you what actual detriment it has caused you to suffer.

The reality is taking legal action is time-consuming, emotionally draining, and expensive, so you need to ask yourself is it worth it, even if your former employer was in the wrong and gave an ill- advised and inept reference when all they needed to do was confirm name, role title and dates of employment.