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Original poster

Annual leave request refused

96 replies

SienaBlue · 13/09/2022 02:49

I put in a leave request on the Monday to have Friday off. The request was for a single day of annual leave to take my child to a sporting event to defend their champion title.

We were awaiting confirmation from the school that they gave permission for my child to have leave to attend the event. And as soon as I had their permission, I then put in my annual leave request. It was just for a single day, so I felt that was enough notice for my line manager.

For background info, we are a reduced team as we have 2 team members on long term sick leave. So that leaves us with a agency worker who has been with us for 5 months. A new team member, who started employment 6 weeks ago plus one other experienced team member who works part time and does not work Fridays. My line manager works outside of the main team. Fridays are usually quiet and considered to be a non meeting day.

My line manager has refused my request on the grounds that:

There was insufficient notice to allow them to be flexible and make alternative arrangements for cover.
They want to work on the premise that there is always an experienced staff member, senior grade present.

Whilst I do understand that it would leave the team light on experienced staff members, I think that I have given enough notice for a single day's leave. Plus the new rule of always needing an experienced staff member present should have been discussed ahead of being enforced, so that at least I would have been aware of this and had some advance notice if it. I also think that it is slightly unfair as the only other experienced staff member doesn't work Fridays, so I am concerned that I will not be able to take a Friday off until the others return from their long term sick leave (not sure when that will be). I feel that I am penalised for others being on long term sick leave, which is out of my control.

I'm also sad and disappointed that I will not be there supporting my child at what is an important event for them.

Does anyone else think it is unfair and worth a conversation with HR?

OP posts:
Doidontimmm · 13/09/2022 03:02

what cover could they have organised if they had more notice?

fallfallfall · 13/09/2022 03:08

annual leave where i worked (retired) needed to be in place by april 1 for the entire year. four days notice would not even be looked at.
for me i would have applied (without the schools confirmation and honestly if it was for a champion title who cares if the school approves??).

can you arrange your own cover with a colleague?

Original poster
SienaBlue · 13/09/2022 03:29

There is no other cover that they could have organised with more notice, temps aren't permitted for short term cover. And other departments are also short staffed and don't have staff to spare or knowledge of our department. So they certainly would not have been able to have arranged experienced cover anyway.

OP posts:
ReeseWitherfork · 13/09/2022 03:50

Depends what your annual leave policy says. Mine wants double the length of the leave in notice. So one day wants two days notice. Having said that, I’m sure it also says it’s at their discretion so they can decline whatever they want (they don’t though!). I think your manager is being a bit of a twat to say no but I’d be shocked if your HR department did anything. No harm in having a diplomatic conversation with your manager in which you tell them you think they’re being a twat and hoping they won’t expect any favours from you anytime soon.

Fullupdowntown1a1 · 13/09/2022 03:57

SienaBlue · 13/09/2022 03:29

There is no other cover that they could have organised with more notice, temps aren't permitted for short term cover. And other departments are also short staffed and don't have staff to spare or knowledge of our department. So they certainly would not have been able to have arranged experienced cover anyway.

@SienaBlue gosh sounds like they are being very petty for no good reason. Do you really want to work for these people? Maybe it’s a sign you need to move to a workplace that respects you and the importance of occasionally prioritising family over work?

DifficultBloodyWoman · 13/09/2022 03:59

I’d be tempted to warn them in writing that I had applied for annual leave for reasons relating to my child and will now do my best to find a suitable alternative but please note that I may need to take emergency carer’s leave or emergency parental leave if the unreliable alternatives fall through.

DanaScully53 · 13/09/2022 04:00

As someone has already said it depends whats in your contract. My DH has to give 10 days notice for any time off unless it's a genuine emergency.

Newmummu · 13/09/2022 05:34

What does your contract say? I think ours is 6 weeks notice and even then it is discretionary. Appreciate there are last minute occasions but asking on Monday for Friday off when the team is already short staffed is not much notice and I can understand why it was declined. It would have been better to do a tentative request as soon as you knew you may need to attend the event.

DoubleChinWoes2 · 13/09/2022 05:42

You have the right to ask for annual leave, but you don't have the right to have it when you want.

Dontsparethehorses · 13/09/2022 05:43

I think a conversation with HR about if this rule will mean you can never have a full weeks leave is appropriate- if you can never have Fridays off for example? Especially if this is not true of any other staff member?

JustBkind · 13/09/2022 05:47

Things like this is why people end up phoning in sick and then people don’t just take a day, they take a week and then the knock on effect is bigger than the original one day request. It appears they need to cling on to their experienced staff and in an employees market, they’re not helping themselves!

daretodenim · 13/09/2022 05:58

Dontsparethehorses · 13/09/2022 05:43

I think a conversation with HR about if this rule will mean you can never have a full weeks leave is appropriate- if you can never have Fridays off for example? Especially if this is not true of any other staff member?

This.

ivykaty44 · 13/09/2022 06:09

put In for a Friday annual leave in 3 weeks time and see whether it’s granted.

if it is cancel it nearer the time

if it’s not granted then you put in for 6 weeks time and see what happens

rwalker · 13/09/2022 06:30

You’ve given 3 days notice seems fair enough it’s refused
the reason given sound justified

Devilishpyjamas · 13/09/2022 06:33

Dontsparethehorses · 13/09/2022 05:43

I think a conversation with HR about if this rule will mean you can never have a full weeks leave is appropriate- if you can never have Fridays off for example? Especially if this is not true of any other staff member?

Yes, this.

Beees · 13/09/2022 06:35

Dontsparethehorses · 13/09/2022 05:43

I think a conversation with HR about if this rule will mean you can never have a full weeks leave is appropriate- if you can never have Fridays off for example? Especially if this is not true of any other staff member?

Agreed. It seems from what you say you will never be allowed a Friday off as all the reasons given will still be applicable no matter how much notice you give. I would want this situation clarifying ASAP.

Hopefully you can resolve the issue and your child is able to attend the event.

girlmom21 · 13/09/2022 06:37

That's very short notice for a day off - especially if you knew about it well in advance. It would have made more sense to book the day off when you found out and cancel it if the school declined the day off.

The rule about one senior person is going to screw you over though so challenge that.

Wheelz46 · 13/09/2022 06:38

Depends what your policy is for holiday requests.

The company I work for, you have to give 7 days notice of holiday, they will of course allow short notice closer to the time if there is sufficient cover.

Doidontimmm · 13/09/2022 06:41

daretodenim · 13/09/2022 05:58

This.

Show quote history

Yes this then if there is nothing they could do anyway re cover!

Weirdlynormal · 13/09/2022 06:43

Will your leave endanger life? If not then the understaffing is not a problem you can fix and therefore, not your problem. I’d speak to HR, on this basis you can NEVER have a Friday, which is not reasonable.

chocolateorangeinhaler · 13/09/2022 06:44

What do you think HR will do? They don't override the line manager decision. They are there in an advisory capacity only. It's one thing to cite caters leave to take a sick child to a doctor or dentist but to take them to a sporting even because you want to watch ?? Come on get real.
You simply didn't give enough notice, end of. The reasons behind that are not the concern of the employer. Learn from this.

Beees · 13/09/2022 06:46

You simply didn't give enough notice, end of. The reasons behind that are not the concern of the employer. Learn from this.

If you read their reasoning though then it doesn't matter how much notice if given the OP will never be allowed to take a Friday off even if she asked for it months in advance. If the problem was short notice then that's fine but it isn't is it.

Weirdlynormal · 13/09/2022 06:50

You simply didn't give enough notice, end of. The reasons behind that are not the concern of the employer. Learn from this

Not what the reason was.

Popaholic · 13/09/2022 06:55

Forget HR for a minute. Book an urgent meeting with your line manager, The decision makes no sense and hasn’t been thought through.

I would express how strongly you feel about the day off and how important it is for the company to be family friendly for the health and mental health of their staff, especially with the team under pressure due to the missing people on long term sick. Lay it on a bit thick then ask if there is any wiggle room at all to reconsider. I would ask, what is the management plan if you are ever sick on a Friday - as a very especial favour could that plan be activated now, with the understanding that in future you will seek to stick to a longer agreed notice period. I would also ask what will be the plan if you need a whole week off in future.

make sure you have double checked what it says in your contract of employment about booking holiday.

Hastingsontheup · 13/09/2022 06:59

Take unpaid parental leave (harder to decline I think?),otherwise do you need the whole day ? Could you for eg: go in for a couple of hours in the morning ? Failing this I think you need to suck it up. My work requires 6-8 weeks and had rostered annual leave for at least 5 years so my sympathy is limited.