Annual leave request refused

[SienaBlue]

I put in a leave request on the Monday to have Friday off. The request was for a single day of annual leave to take my child to a sporting event to defend their champion title.

We were awaiting confirmation from the school that they gave permission for my child to have leave to attend the event. And as soon as I had their permission, I then put in my annual leave request. It was just for a single day, so I felt that was enough notice for my line manager.

For background info, we are a reduced team as we have 2 team members on long term sick leave. So that leaves us with a agency worker who has been with us for 5 months. A new team member, who started employment 6 weeks ago plus one other experienced team member who works part time and does not work Fridays. My line manager works outside of the main team. Fridays are usually quiet and considered to be a non meeting day.

My line manager has refused my request on the grounds that:

There was insufficient notice to allow them to be flexible and make alternative arrangements for cover.
They want to work on the premise that there is always an experienced staff member, senior grade present.

Whilst I do understand that it would leave the team light on experienced staff members, I think that I have given enough notice for a single day's leave. Plus the new rule of always needing an experienced staff member present should have been discussed ahead of being enforced, so that at least I would have been aware of this and had some advance notice if it. I also think that it is slightly unfair as the only other experienced staff member doesn't work Fridays, so I am concerned that I will not be able to take a Friday off until the others return from their long term sick leave (not sure when that will be). I feel that I am penalised for others being on long term sick leave, which is out of my control.

I'm also sad and disappointed that I will not be there supporting my child at what is an important event for them.

Does anyone else think it is unfair and worth a conversation with HR?

You're right @Survey99, it needs three weeks notice and I didn't realise it needs to be taken in blocks of whole weeks.

But it's useful to bust the myth that it's for emergencies only. It's for anything child related. Pregnant Then Screwed do some awareness raising about it because it's a largely unknown provision.

A lawyer for a school I worked at in the past said this only covered a couple of hours to arrange alternative childcare. It’s not the get out of jail free card. Some employers are kind and very likely to err on the side of being accommodating but it doesn’t make it legally enforceable.

Parental leave does not have to be approved. It can be offered on a different date, and legally should be taken in week-long, pre-arranged blocks.

Should have said nothing and phones in sick.

I work in a business with a lot more staff however I wouldn't be able to accept this request, it's very short notice. I'd always try to work around things like this because childrens events are important so I'd risk leaving us short to let my staff member attend, however, you must have known the date for this beforehand?

Not being able to take any Friday off is an issue and very unfair if that is the case but giving 5 days notice for this particular event isn't an acceptable amount for expect leave for be requested if cover isn't there

@SienaBlue doesn’t seem enough notice to me, would ask as soon as I know and cancel if not needed. But would be concerned if the situation effectively means you can never have a Friday off, as it simply is out of your control. Request some in advance and see what happens. In the meantime, explain to your boss that it’s a really important reason and see if they will help out and say in future you will give more notice (at least while everyone’s off sick etc). But it is not your fault they don’t have enough Friday cover!

I have been a manager for many years, I have never operated any rules about how much notice I need for a leave request and something I learned from people above me, is to not make it hard for people to take their leave.

I do still support a managers right to turn leave down if they feel there is a business reason to do so. In this case, I would be questioning the suggestion that you can never have a Friday off whilst some team members are on long term sick. If that really is the case, then I would be escalating that, but I wonder if they are actually saying that or if they have just thrown it in as an attempt to justify the decline.

The days leave at short notice is understandable to be turned down, if you have another event OP I'd book it as soon as you know the date and cancel if you don't need it.

The Friday/cover comment is a bit of a misdirect I think. Needing cover is pretty standard, longer term the new starter will be fine soon but 6 weeks is still pretty new so even with the long term sick there will be 2 experienced staff (3 including the temporary person if they stay longer) once that new starter is up to speed.
Shorter term, is the plan that the person who doesn't work a Friday swap days off or work the occasional Friday as cover with enough notice? 4 days isn't enough to ask them to rearrange plans but say, 2/4/6 weeks is reasonable notice to ask them to work the day. Alternatively some other plan in place like your line manager covering for anything urgent for that day or someone from another department/team covering but again, they'd need reasonable notice and 4 days isn't enough.

That's how it works. You apply, and they say yes or no. It's not a right to have your leave requests granted. You said yourself that they are short staffed, and they are perfectly within their rights to say no to you.
It's a shame, but that's life I'm afraid.

Thanks for all your comments.

For info, my child's attendance at the event was only confirmed by the organisers last Friday, the school actually came back to me very quickly.

I think I'm more annoyed that I've been extremely flexible with them for the best interests of the organisation and worked 5 or so hours longer in the day without being given any notice from them.

The situation I am describing (arranging someone else to take care of DC who then backs out at the last minute) would, in my opinion, become an emergency. But I recognise that it is a contrived situation and not everyone would share that opinion.

I still think the OP should push to get the day off, ideally with pre approval, as an occasion such as this will always be remembered by DC.

Would it be unreasonable to suggest that this pettiness is why two staff members of a small team are on long term sick leave?

Yep - needs to be booked in week blocks and with at least 21 days notice and it can be delayed.

Can you swap days off with the never work a Friday person? So, say, he works Thursday normally but takes Thursday off and works Friday, so you can have Friday as annual leave?

Had that been me I'd have booked the Friday off with as much notice as normal, then warned I may come in anyway.

Unfortunately my assistant who doesn't work Fridays, is unable to swap due to other commitments.

A number of long term well experienced staff have left the organisation due to being unhappy with how they have been treaty lately. I mean staff who have been here for 15 - 27 years, so have a vast understanding of the organisation, operations, policy's, procedures etc. This has meant the organisation is short staffed in vertually every department and all that knowledge and expertise has left the organisation, leaving new staff trying to work things out for themselfs and more experienced staff fire fighting. You would think that they would learn from their mistakes but clearly they haven't.

There's nothing in the annual leave policy regarding how much notice should be given (just says managers discretion) or there always having to be experienced staff present. There has always been great flexibility in the past so the sudden change in direction is what I'm annoyed abou, as I feel any changes should have been communicated prior to being implemented, so at least I would have had some notice.

So today I actually (1st time in 4 years) logged off and took a lunch break for a change. I have decided I won't be staying past my working hours in future because they've sent an invite for a meeting after my leaving time (I don't get paid overtime and have never been given the time back) I will simply be asking them to resend the meeting invite during my contracted hours if they want me to attend. I won't be working late without any prior notice, I have done this in the past without hesitation to ensure SLAs were met, and a great service was being provided to our key Stakeholders. Also I won't be killing myself to cover the work of the two staff members on sick leave in future.

I have always worked on the principle that flexibility works both ways but unfortunately I have learnt a hard lesson this time, sadly one which also is upsetting to my child.

Once again thank you to all who have taken the time to read my post and respond.

I was thinking the same

I don’t blame you.

I don't blame you for your new work attitude - but it is worth reminding your manager how your family life suffers because you go above and beyond. And clearly that if this flexibility is not reciprocated by the company when you need time off at short notice for a family event, then things will be changing.

I agree with your stance OP, but I would also speak to your manager and say you are really disappointed with the response: you have always shown great flexibility and gone above and beyond to support the team ;especially during the current absences) and you are surprised they are now showing such a lack of flexibility back. Not least because the reasoning basically means you can never have a Friday off which obviously isn’t fair. However, if that is the position they wish to take then you will be revisiting your own flexibility and amending your approach to work accordingly.

Honestly I'd give them notice that you won't be in and let them do with that what they will...I've never found jobs hard to replace tho so understand if your in a niche industry it might be harder to do that

Wouldn’t even be entertained in ours