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Original poster

Annual leave request refused

96 replies

SienaBlue · 13/09/2022 02:49

I put in a leave request on the Monday to have Friday off. The request was for a single day of annual leave to take my child to a sporting event to defend their champion title.

We were awaiting confirmation from the school that they gave permission for my child to have leave to attend the event. And as soon as I had their permission, I then put in my annual leave request. It was just for a single day, so I felt that was enough notice for my line manager.

For background info, we are a reduced team as we have 2 team members on long term sick leave. So that leaves us with a agency worker who has been with us for 5 months. A new team member, who started employment 6 weeks ago plus one other experienced team member who works part time and does not work Fridays. My line manager works outside of the main team. Fridays are usually quiet and considered to be a non meeting day.

My line manager has refused my request on the grounds that:

There was insufficient notice to allow them to be flexible and make alternative arrangements for cover.
They want to work on the premise that there is always an experienced staff member, senior grade present.

Whilst I do understand that it would leave the team light on experienced staff members, I think that I have given enough notice for a single day's leave. Plus the new rule of always needing an experienced staff member present should have been discussed ahead of being enforced, so that at least I would have been aware of this and had some advance notice if it. I also think that it is slightly unfair as the only other experienced staff member doesn't work Fridays, so I am concerned that I will not be able to take a Friday off until the others return from their long term sick leave (not sure when that will be). I feel that I am penalised for others being on long term sick leave, which is out of my control.

I'm also sad and disappointed that I will not be there supporting my child at what is an important event for them.

Does anyone else think it is unfair and worth a conversation with HR?

OP posts:
Morph22010 · 13/09/2022 07:02

I think there’s two angles to this, the contractual side and the staff moral side. Contractually they are most prob in their rights to refuse. You are within your rights to be pissed off whether people think that’s justified or not. I’m guessing with you being a senior staff member and them having two others off long term sick they won’t want to lose you so you could have a word and let it be known how disappointed/ upset you are even if it makes no difference. I’ve worked at my work for years and often book my leave at short notice except for if I know we are going away and it’s always been allowed so I’d be annoyed if out of the blue I was suddenly denied even though contactually it’s allowed. To me it would show me what the employer thought of me and I’d certainly think about moving on, it’s an employees market at the min

LindseyHoyleSpeaks · 13/09/2022 07:04

You’re stomach’s feeling a bit dodgy after that curry isn’t it, OP? Wouldn’t want to take food poisoning into the office, would you? I’d go sick from tomorrow - three days - serve them right!

Hastingsontheup · 13/09/2022 07:15

LindseyHoyleSpeaks · 13/09/2022 07:04

You’re stomach’s feeling a bit dodgy after that curry isn’t it, OP? Wouldn’t want to take food poisoning into the office, would you? I’d go sick from tomorrow - three days - serve them right!

What an appalling attitude.

neverenoughchelseaboots · 13/09/2022 07:18

I always grant leave requests because the detriment to staff morale and motivation long term far outweighs any short term inconvenience.

That's office based and not customer facing though.

Gensola · 13/09/2022 07:20

@Hastingsontheup no more appalling than the way the workplace are behaving. Most companies and business and public sector are all extremely short staffed atm and it’s definitely a buyer’s market for employees looking for better pay and conditions. If I were OP I’d be looking to move somewhere else!

Octomore · 13/09/2022 07:20

You gave 3 days notice! It's not very much notice at all.

In situations like this, I gjve my manager a heads up in advance, and sometimes book the day before the event is confirmed, knowing that I can cancel it if needed.

Hastingsontheup · 13/09/2022 07:22

Not really, she has given 3 days notice, that isn't very much at all. How is it it appalling to refuse that ?

Beees · 13/09/2022 07:23

You gave 3 days notice! It's not very much notice at all.

Again though the amount of notice doesn't matter it is the lack an experienced staff member who works Fridays which the OP cannot change and which will always be the reason she can't have a Friday off. If the event was on Thursday for example it would be less notice but more likely to have been granted.

Hastingsontheup · 13/09/2022 07:27

They obviously can't refuse any Friday, they can refuse this Friday.

FaazoHuyzeoSix · 13/09/2022 07:31

I would have thought it would be better to put in the request for the Annual Leave with at least 3-4 weeks notice or longer if possible, as soon as you know the event date, but noting to your line manager that you might end up cancelling the leave and coming in to work anyway in the event that there was a decision that your DD wouldn't compete after all. There was no need to wait till the last moment to put in your request and it doesn't work for tge business to have employees feeling they can mess up rotas at a few days notice. It's not just about this week but that if they say yes now they will find it more difficult to cope if there are lots of other last minute requests in future.

Sorry to hear you will miss this event but so long as your DD can still go and compete then chalk it up as a learning experience and look forward to watching her next time.

Pootle40 · 13/09/2022 07:31

Octomore · 13/09/2022 07:20

You gave 3 days notice! It's not very much notice at all.

In situations like this, I gjve my manager a heads up in advance, and sometimes book the day before the event is confirmed, knowing that I can cancel it if needed.

I took last Friday off and requested it at 2pm Thursday, not uncommon in our large organisation

Cosycover · 13/09/2022 07:32

I'd phone in sick.

Chocolatepringles · 13/09/2022 07:38

Like you said in your OP it's a "request". Therefore they can refuse it.

I've had to miss things with my own kids over the years and it sucks. Now I have the authority at work to grant short notice Annual Leave and I do my absolute best to give it but occasionally I have to say no if it will affect the needs of the service.

Beees · 13/09/2022 07:39

Hastingsontheup · 13/09/2022 07:27

They obviously can't refuse any Friday, they can refuse this Friday.

That's exactly what they're saying though isn't it? The OP can't get around the lack of experienced staff working that day even with 3 weeks notice so effectively she cannot have any Friday off.

Livinghappy · 13/09/2022 07:42

@neverenoughchelseaboots, Agree. I would never refuse holiday and if I had to then I would talk to the staff member so they fully understood and I would demonstrate I had tried to make it work. Managers who take a hard line do so at the detriment of morale and goodwill.

Would you leave this workplace or do they believe you don't have choices?

Fortyisthenewthirty · 13/09/2022 07:44

That's very short notice. I'm also a senior in a team that has to ensure cover (whether it's normally a busy day or not). What I would have done is requested the leave day as soon as I knew about it (before the school gave permission) and cancelled it if I didn't need it. I would not expect to be able to take it at 4 days notice.

As a manager, however, assuming the team member didn't make a habit of inconveniencing others, I would move heaven and earth to make the day off happen, including switching my own days around to cover.

girlmom21 · 13/09/2022 07:46

Hastingsontheup · 13/09/2022 06:59

Take unpaid parental leave (harder to decline I think?),otherwise do you need the whole day ? Could you for eg: go in for a couple of hours in the morning ? Failing this I think you need to suck it up. My work requires 6-8 weeks and had rostered annual leave for at least 5 years so my sympathy is limited.

That's not what parental leave is for.

Fortyisthenewthirty · 13/09/2022 07:46

SienaBlue · 13/09/2022 03:29

There is no other cover that they could have organised with more notice, temps aren't permitted for short term cover. And other departments are also short staffed and don't have staff to spare or knowledge of our department. So they certainly would not have been able to have arranged experienced cover anyway.

If there is no other cover that can be arranged with more notice, how do they normally cover your leave?

pastypirate · 13/09/2022 07:48

I would challenge this because isn't it going to affect future AL? I'd be putting my AL in for the rest of the year now.

Travellingwomble · 13/09/2022 07:49

I would say to HR ... you feel you are being 'disadvantaged' . You have been advised you cannot take a day off as the preferential treatment given to one member of staff who has every friday off seems to suggest you can never have a Friday off despite several days notice. You are and have been prepared to be flexible to meet the needs of the service but feel that your carer responsibilities are being sidelined in this instance.
Look to your policies on carers leave or family friendly policies.

ebri91 · 13/09/2022 07:50

Do u get paid for than your less experienced colleagues? If not I would be making a fuss about the rule regardless of the denied leave day

Cakeandcardio · 13/09/2022 07:50

I know mumsnet always seem to think employment comes first but I never have that view. Your child always comes first. Phone in sick. Take a week. And enjoy the event with your child!

anniegun · 13/09/2022 07:52

It does seem very short notice. I think I am with your employer on this one.

BringOnSummerHolidays · 13/09/2022 07:55

Depends on company policy. Mine can be done retrospectively. I have never had a leave request refused.

Survey99 · 13/09/2022 07:59

Hastingsontheup · 13/09/2022 06:59

Take unpaid parental leave (harder to decline I think?),otherwise do you need the whole day ? Could you for eg: go in for a couple of hours in the morning ? Failing this I think you need to suck it up. My work requires 6-8 weeks and had rostered annual leave for at least 5 years so my sympathy is limited.

What "unpaid parental leave" is this?

Dependency leave for emergencies when your child is ill/needs care? Not appropriate for an optional event..

Unpaid parental leave that must be taken in a minimum of one week blocks, organised in advance and timing, like annual leave, is at employers discretion?

OP never gave enough notice and her work cannot accomodate. It is as simple as that. She needs to have a conversation if Fridays are still an issue if she does give enough notice.