Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Work

Chat with other users about all things related to working life on our Work forum.

Original poster

Ageism - tribunal or take the cash?

93 replies

ItsnotaHenryMoore · 05/09/2022 00:21

My friend recently started a sales job but after a day and a half of training, was told to leave with immediate effect, and escorted from the building. Like a criminal. She was told they felt she was over experienced and would become bored and disruptive. My friend had expressed a few concerns before starting that a number of comments had been made about her age by HR and others - how they don't recruit people as old as her etc...all the other sales people were in their 20's. She is mid 50's.

She was mortified but having thought about it, became angry and contacted a no win no fee solicitor. He contacted ACAS, the company have now offered £2k, but she must accept within a week otherwise that will be withdrawn and she can go to a tribunal. They are saying they have 4 witnesses that she behaved inappropriately - following men into the toilets - utter crap. They have insisted their HR person absolutely didn't mention anything about her age. Also rubbish.

The solicitor has warned her that although she could be awarded a much larger sum of money, it could take up to 2 years, might be reported in the local paper. Would be v stressful etc. Sounds like they will fight dirty and I really worry about the emotional impact on her.

Has anyone got any advice? Her immediate feeling is to take the offer but they behaved appallingly and it feels they are definitely trying to deflect from the ageist comments and attitudes.

I have suggested she hold out for a better offer. She could really do with the money.

But neither of us have any experience. Has anyone any wisdom as to the best way forward?

OP posts:
Rodion · 05/09/2022 00:26

What a horrible thing to happen.

Personally I'd reluctantly the money and draw a line under it. I understand needing the money but these things take ages with no guarantee of success - being strapped for cash only makes the whole saga more stressful and the prospect of losing all the more dreadful.

LaundryBin · 05/09/2022 00:28

I’d take the money- no need to go through an unpleasant case, no risk, no damage to her reputation (which there should not be anyway but these cases are often reported).

FruitPastilleNut · 05/09/2022 00:35

Mid ground - take an offer but try and negotiate and edge them up a bit by bluffing.

I would go back and say I would accept £3k to draw a line under it or I would proceed to tribunal. I would ask that they let me know if they are willing to accept this, and if not to please forward the details of the witnesses to my solicitor for the next stage to commence. ACAS can put this offer to them - if they say no to £3k she could still I turn and accept the £2k.

My DH once went through this negotiation process through ACAS. The company offered £3k, dh said he wanted £5k to accept and they came back and offered £4k which he took.

Original poster
ItsnotaHenryMoore · 05/09/2022 00:36

Thanks, since she will only see just over 50% of the total, I wondered if it's worth calling their bluff just to see if they come up with a better offer. If they don't, she won't lose a life changing amount. Something seems odd if they are prepared to lie about her so easily. They are quite a large concern.

OP posts:
Original poster
ItsnotaHenryMoore · 05/09/2022 00:37

FruitPastilleNut · 05/09/2022 00:35

Mid ground - take an offer but try and negotiate and edge them up a bit by bluffing.

I would go back and say I would accept £3k to draw a line under it or I would proceed to tribunal. I would ask that they let me know if they are willing to accept this, and if not to please forward the details of the witnesses to my solicitor for the next stage to commence. ACAS can put this offer to them - if they say no to £3k she could still I turn and accept the £2k.

My DH once went through this negotiation process through ACAS. The company offered £3k, dh said he wanted £5k to accept and they came back and offered £4k which he took.

Ah, cross posted!

OP posts:
Original poster
ItsnotaHenryMoore · 05/09/2022 00:40

I think that by insisting she has only a week to consider they are trying to force her hand without time to consider properly. Sounds like she needs to alter the power balance and take control.

OP posts:
jayhoo · 05/09/2022 00:47

What is your friend's financial position? £2k for a few days pain sounds pretty good and you could probably quite easily get them up to 3/4. As per previous posters.

Re tribunal, employer should have set out clearly reasons in letter terminating employment. They cannot. Subsequently rely on hearsay

Might take time but if your friend has capacity then I'd challenge

hashbrownsandwich · 05/09/2022 00:55

I've been to tribuneral following discrimination. Yes I won but it took 2 years of pure and utter stress. Would never, ever do it again, not for even millions.

Original poster
ItsnotaHenryMoore · 05/09/2022 00:55

I'm not sure she even had a letter from them! I'll check. She has a no win, no fee arrangement so would see about half of £2k.

It was more than a few days pain - she had been unemployed for a few months, she was so thrilled to get this offer, had to wait nearly a month for the training to start, (not applying for anything else in the meantime), promised a company car and was so excited. She was devastated to be treated like this, made to feel like a criminal, telling me how ashamed she felt letting her family down etc. Now they are apparently prepared to lie about her. Absolutely heartless.

OP posts:
DramaAlpaca · 05/09/2022 01:13

That's appalling. Honestly though, I think if it was me (I'm about her age) I'd take the settlement. I would, however, do my best to push it upwards. Treat it as an opening offer. Make that solicitor earn his cut.

Glitteratitar · 05/09/2022 01:17

If I was in her shoes I would ask for £4k to draw a line under it all, and see what they come back with.

Alternatively she can ask for £2k plus her legal fees.

rose69 · 05/09/2022 06:38

There was another thread recently with very good advice from solicitors. The majority view was to take the offer. Tribunals are stressful, she may not win and the money may not be much more.

Cupofteaonesugar · 05/09/2022 06:41

Offering money to someone they are accusing sounds bizarre to me.
I would try and negotiate! They are obviously taking part liability to be offering a sum.

Hotandbothereds · 05/09/2022 07:04

I'm not sure she even had a letter from them! I'll check. She has a no win, no fee arrangement so would see about half of £2k.

If she takes the offer does it need to go through the no win no fee? Wouldn’t that legal service only be required if she goes down the tribunal route?

Twiglets1 · 05/09/2022 07:09

I agree they are accepting some responsibility by offering 2k. I would try asking for 5k - say that 2k is insulting considering the damage to her confidence and mental health and expect to settle at 3 or 4K

containsnuts · 05/09/2022 07:17

My main concern would be the consequences for future employment as they will likely give her a terrible reference. Will be hard to fight if they have witnesses willing to lie. Might be better to take the money and agree to go quietly if they will provide a genetic reference with just dates of employment and then draw a line under it.

PermanentTemporary · 05/09/2022 07:22

I definitely would avoid tribunal but yes, negotiate upwards. 2 months salary or so?

Soontobe60 · 05/09/2022 07:28

If she has been offered a settlement and refuses to take it, that could mean she ends up having to pay the no win no fee solicitors out of her own pocket. She needs to look very carefully at the contract she signed with the solicitor and ask them what the situation would be if she turned down their offer.
My DH is currently going through a NWNF case against his employer and it’s very clear on his contract that if he goes against their advice and refuses to accept and agreed settlement he will be liable for all the legal fees.

EmMacv · 05/09/2022 07:32

Make them pay full legal fees as part of the negotiation.

EmMacv · 05/09/2022 07:32

Anyhow if she's in a sales role why isn't she better at negotiating?

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 05/09/2022 07:36

containsnuts · 05/09/2022 07:17

My main concern would be the consequences for future employment as they will likely give her a terrible reference. Will be hard to fight if they have witnesses willing to lie. Might be better to take the money and agree to go quietly if they will provide a genetic reference with just dates of employment and then draw a line under it.

She was there for a day and a half! Reference irrelevant.

Hollyhocksarenotmessy · 05/09/2022 07:41

I'd take the money but negotiate for a higher amount.

Discrimination cases are extremely hard to prove, especially without any hard evidence such as emails etc.

Hotandbothereds · 05/09/2022 07:46

containsnuts · 05/09/2022 07:17

My main concern would be the consequences for future employment as they will likely give her a terrible reference. Will be hard to fight if they have witnesses willing to lie. Might be better to take the money and agree to go quietly if they will provide a genetic reference with just dates of employment and then draw a line under it.

Why on earth would you give their details to a future employer? I wouldn’t contact them for a reference whatsoever, she wasn’t employed before, simply ignore/omit on CV going forwards.

Hyacinth2 · 05/09/2022 07:50

What was her pay to be - can she demand Monthly Pay x 2.5 months or whatever length of time it is .

FindingMeno · 05/09/2022 07:53

I took a settlement for sexual harassment.
When it's a reputation threatening situation like discrimination or harassment, companies will fight mean and dirty to win, so tribunal is not an easy option.
I would take the money.