Ageism - tribunal or take the cash?

[ItsnotaHenryMoore]

My friend recently started a sales job but after a day and a half of training, was told to leave with immediate effect, and escorted from the building. Like a criminal. She was told they felt she was over experienced and would become bored and disruptive. My friend had expressed a few concerns before starting that a number of comments had been made about her age by HR and others - how they don't recruit people as old as her etc...all the other sales people were in their 20's. She is mid 50's.

She was mortified but having thought about it, became angry and contacted a no win no fee solicitor. He contacted ACAS, the company have now offered £2k, but she must accept within a week otherwise that will be withdrawn and she can go to a tribunal. They are saying they have 4 witnesses that she behaved inappropriately - following men into the toilets - utter crap. They have insisted their HR person absolutely didn't mention anything about her age. Also rubbish.

The solicitor has warned her that although she could be awarded a much larger sum of money, it could take up to 2 years, might be reported in the local paper. Would be v stressful etc. Sounds like they will fight dirty and I really worry about the emotional impact on her.

Has anyone got any advice? Her immediate feeling is to take the offer but they behaved appallingly and it feels they are definitely trying to deflect from the ageist comments and attitudes.

I have suggested she hold out for a better offer. She could really do with the money.

But neither of us have any experience. Has anyone any wisdom as to the best way forward?

What is your experience?

A solicitor once told me a large multinational would play very dirty if taken to employment tribunal. They would deny the existence of any emails, for example, and claim any evidence of them was faked.

I have no idea if this was true, either about the company in question or companies in general. It does however mean I don't think faking four witnesses is implausible.

Bloody hell, there is some godawful advice on this thread. Companies fake witnesses to destroy litigants in tribunal? What? Why?

So they go to employees who couldn't be made to be witnesses anyway, and say 'hey mate, you fake something up about how you saw this lady go into the men's, and instead of saying we asked her what happened or go through any kind of reasonable process, we'll pretend that was gross misconduct dismissal, but we didn't tell the HR Director because reasons? And yeah you'll be committing perjury in an adversarial forensic process, but you'll do that for minimum wage right bruv?'

And the much more senior managers with legal sign off would collude with this that knowing solicitor they hired would have a higher duty to the court, and any course of action along those lines would be unlimited punitive damages and legal costs would they?

Blimey, corporate life is worse than I thought.

I'm so sorry this has happened to your friend. Sounds like a shit company to work for, so maybe she has dodged a bullet.

I'd also suggest asking for more cash not to go to tribunal.

In some ways I think she's had a lucky escape..

But the way they've treated her and the way they are still treating her is just so disgraceful. The arrogance and ruthlessness of it astound me.
How you've described it, @JennyForeigner is exactly as it happened.

She is just a decent kind person, hard working and just wants to make an ok life for herself, after a few tough years. They promised her enormous commission, a company car and it was just kicked from under her for no good reason. And now they are making ridiculous and hurtful accusations to justify their behaviour. It is depressing and I have even more reason to be grateful to my supportive and kind employers - they do exist!

@JennyForeigner - are you really an employment lawyer? Honestly?

What grounds do you have to claim they are « 100% fucked »? What consequences would there be for a company dismissing someone without process who had worked somewhere for a day and a half? Why do you think that tribunals can’t make witness orders when they do it all the time? What sort of award do you think someone would get who has worked somewhere for a day and a half and now has a new job?

You don't have to follow a 'proper disciplinary process' after a day and a half.

You know her as a friend Op

Not a colleague

what is her employment history like?

@JennyForeigner

”non practicing solicitor”

On the basis of your post, I presume you were struck off

@JennyForeigner there have already been claims as to why this individual was dismissed. You do not know if they are true or not. Tribunals can and often do make witness orders and an employer could certainly get its employees to give evidence.

there’s no guarantee ops « friend » would win on a discrimination case. Even if she did, her award would likely be a few thousand pounds given that she has no significant losses. Hardly worth years of litigation.

Lol - exactly. It’s concerning but hopefully op knows not to believe what she reads on the internet.

Oh really? So if I unfairly dismiss someone on grounds of discrimination 1.5 days in, that's ok is it?

Spoiler: it isn't.

I have no idea why you think process in this instance wouldn't apply.

Bless your heart. It's sad how some women just love to see another woman dragged down.

You can't bear that the OP's friend might have been badly treated can you? That she might have waited for a job, been excited about it and lost out because of how she was treated?

I'm sorry if you've had shit treatment at work in the past, but you do know you don't have to actively volunteer to pass it on to others on behalf of Big Don't Give a Fuck?

OP: sorry you are having a bad time with the shit Nancy Drews. This happens every time a poster asks an employment question. I hope your friend is ok, and ACAS won't steer her wrong, but will leave a final decision to her.

Lastly, lol at the idea a litigant has to accept first offer or wait till a tribunal finding.

Do you have any idea what proportion of cases settle after early conciliation but before tribunal, including the night before hearing dates?

... No, thought not.

Oh really? So if I unfairly dismiss someone on grounds of discrimination 1.5 days in, that's ok is it?

Clearly not on the grounds of discrimination but they're claiming it's not discrimination because it's her misconduct that's the issue, not her age...

Funnily enough, the question of mens toilets has only been raised for the first time with the offer. At the time this man she had never met told her that on reflections, they thought she was too experienced, and would therefore become bored and disruptive. And needed to leave the building right that minute.

If she only worked there for 2 days and has another job, definitely take a settlement. But agree that I'd ask for a higher settlement than they're offering - go back and ask for £4k on basis that she had been waiting for the job, accepted in in good faith and stopped looking for other work in the meantime etc.

Take the money. £2k is a lot for a couple of days work. Unless she has recorded evidence of their comments, it's her word against theirs.

It's not a couple of days work that's the issue, its that she went through the recruitment phase, was

Sorry....offered a full time role that was removed in a demeaning way, left her without work as she had obviously stopped job hunting. And now they are threatening her with lies of a very unpleasant nature. She was absolutely crushed because she mistakenly thought her future was all working out. So no, it's not just money in exchange for a couple of days work.

youre not an employment lawyer. A process is only relevant in respect of unfair dismissal. You need two years service for a claim.

But you said they were a “100%” fucked

i don’t know a solicitor on the planet that would throw around a stat like that

most odd

You’re pretending to be an employment solicitor when you’re obviously not. It has nothing to do women dragging other women down but with you being a fantasist and spreading misinformation.

@JennyForeigner

i think you best stay “un practising” although I suspect you don’t have a say in the matter anyway!

I encouraged her to reach a settlement unlike you who responded « tribunal » and claimed her employer was « 100% fucked ».

i have enough experience of the tribunal system to know you are obviously not an employment lawyer nor anyone the op should be listening to.