Ageism - tribunal or take the cash?

[ItsnotaHenryMoore]

My friend recently started a sales job but after a day and a half of training, was told to leave with immediate effect, and escorted from the building. Like a criminal. She was told they felt she was over experienced and would become bored and disruptive. My friend had expressed a few concerns before starting that a number of comments had been made about her age by HR and others - how they don't recruit people as old as her etc...all the other sales people were in their 20's. She is mid 50's.

She was mortified but having thought about it, became angry and contacted a no win no fee solicitor. He contacted ACAS, the company have now offered £2k, but she must accept within a week otherwise that will be withdrawn and she can go to a tribunal. They are saying they have 4 witnesses that she behaved inappropriately - following men into the toilets - utter crap. They have insisted their HR person absolutely didn't mention anything about her age. Also rubbish.

The solicitor has warned her that although she could be awarded a much larger sum of money, it could take up to 2 years, might be reported in the local paper. Would be v stressful etc. Sounds like they will fight dirty and I really worry about the emotional impact on her.

Has anyone got any advice? Her immediate feeling is to take the offer but they behaved appallingly and it feels they are definitely trying to deflect from the ageist comments and attitudes.

I have suggested she hold out for a better offer. She could really do with the money.

But neither of us have any experience. Has anyone any wisdom as to the best way forward?

And post an anonymous review on Glassdoor

Take the money OP (it’s you isnt it?)

4 witnesses? That is compelling evidence

Has she got a new job or is she still unemployed?

I'd call their bluff too. Say that offer is not acceptable and she is prepared to go to tribunal with substantial evidence they are lying about her and about HR's attitude. Say that she has witnesses prepared to come forward. Get them to substantially raise their offer. They don't want a tribunal either.

No, it's not me! I'm employed by a lovely charity who really look after their staff.

She didn't walk into the men's toilets - that's just a desperate lie. The Glass Door reviews already talk about these people as ruthless and say there is a revolving door culture. She read these in advance but I think just assumed it wouldn't happen to her as she is an excellent saleswoman.

She starts her new job today, so I think there is a part of her that just wants to move on. To see her after she was escorted from the building was terrible. It was outright ageism - a horrible way to treat someone.

The ageism argument simply does not make sense.

she went through an interview process
They hired her
unless she aged dramatically within a few weeks - it doesn’t make sense

Going to a tribunal can be horrendously expensive and she will likely only get damages for losses, so probably a max of 6-12 months salary. Unless she's on a large wage then all of that would,be wiped out in solicitors fees?

As PP have said I'd go,back asking for £6k , then settle somewhere in the middle.

I wouldn't take the money. After legal fees she'll walk away with a few quid.

She stood out like a sore thumb - a sturdy middle aged woman (like me!) in a sea of 20 somethings, playing table tennis. The HR woman told her that they never employed people of her age as sales staff (HR woman was same age) but made an exception for her because of her energy and enthusiasm. She called the HR woman after the director (whom she'd never met before) let her go, and the HR woman hadn't even been told.

@Doingprettywellthanks

yes, there’s something else going on here.

though the idea that a middle-aged woman going into the mens loos is a dismissal offence in the current climate of ‘sharing spaces ‘ is …..odd.

Tell your friend to take the money, OP.

Hi I would suggest if they are offering her a settlement agreement it should be £2k plus her legal expenses (as these are usually paid separately) - I’d go back and request £5k plus her legal expenses on top and see what they say. As in my experience they lowball the initial offer, and like others wouldn’t take it to a tribunal as it’s up to 2 years of stress.

If she's got another job I'd consider taking the money. A PP's suggestion of negotiating that they pay her legal fees is a good one.

I left a company, due to an horrendous issue with two members of staff who believed they could bully me - they got that wrong, but I handed in my resignation and left of my own accord, as my life is too short for that crap! I'd made it clear to the management about why I was leaving and they knew (they believed that eventually they would stop...). So off I went, but then I received a settlement from the company, which I did not ask for and was not expecting of £7K. The solicitor I went to as part of this, said he'd never seen a payment that high for such a short term role, only there three months, but when I told him the story he was clear I could have gone for much more. I didn't ask for the settlement but companies are very worried now (there was an NDA) and I agree ask for a bit more money, then ignore the fact you ever worked for the company and move on. Waiting for it to drag through the process of tribunal is not worth it.

If she started and left this job “recently” and has already started a new role (hope this one treats her a lot better!) she probably won’t get much in losses at a tribunal.

As previous posters have said best to try to negotiate extra for legal fees and then draw a like under it. I don’t think the stress and costs of a long drawn out tribunal process will help her, mentally or financially

She has a new job and was only there for a day and a half. Even if she can prove age discrimination any award will be low anyway. By all means try to push them up a bit but I wouldn’t be going to tribunal with that.

Tribunal all the way (I'm a currently non-practicing employment lawyer).

£2k is their first offer, not their last. They wouldn't be making it at this stage if they weren't 100% fucked.

Your friend has what are called excellent prima facie grounds to believe she has been discriminated against on grounds of age. The apparent absolute bollocks they have made up to scare her is worthless. They would have had to follow a proper disciplinary process. No-one can be compelled to be a witness in tribunal and lying on the company's would get them nowhere but a perjury charge. Defending a case - even getting to court - would cost the company upwards of £25k and probably £40k, not counting all the time and resources that would go into prep and risk of reputational harm.

I don't know any local paper that reports employment cases. How would they? They pay an average of £17 for a couple of local fete opening stories and then buy the rest in from a national source.

The tribunal process is set up for what are called litigants in person. The very nice staff walk you through every stage.

If your friend is really unsure tell her to counteroffer at 10k or similar for immediate resolution, and talking the points above through with acas.

OK Who was the offer made to you or your NWNF solicitors?

Respond starting with a heading of “Without Prejudice” Thank them for their offer and ask for £3k plus legal fees and an agreed reference e.g Dates employed, no issue with (friend) work, current economic climate meant the job ceased to exist.

Notes:

1. For 1.5 days work any tribunal payout will be minimal.
2. No need to put 1.5 days training on a CV but an agreed factual reference is fine.

Take the money, tribunals take years and zap the life out of you

Sounds odd things to allege without any foundation, who on earth would come up with following men into toilets for eg? I'd take the money in her situation.

You say you haven't seen the offer, is that correct?
This appears to have been done through your solicitor.
Email your solicitor saying you'll accept x amount , that this amount youll accept is net of all legal and administrative fees however arising.

Make sure you see written terms.
Too often people make verbal agreement thinking they'll get x then find out their own solicitor is getting a chunk of that money in fees.

The emails to your solicitor gives you a paper trail.

Why are they offering money if they are claiming they didn't do anything wrong? What is the basis of the offered settlement?

And count herself very lucky

Because the argument that ageism simply doesn’t stand (they hired her!)

and combined with 4 witnesses

£2k she should grab and run

Because as a business you weigh up the time involved in defending something versus just quickly moving on and sucking up a small cost

@Doingprettywellthanks in my experience they deny any wrongdoing until the end of time

They hired her (so knew her age)
4 witnesses

come on