Longterm sickness, need to resign

[Alldelicious]

DS is employed on a 4 year apprenticeship, coming to the end of the 3rd year. Started at 16.

His father was diagnosed with a terminal illness at the start of y2 and died towards the end of year2

DS did very well in year 1, but the wheels have come off since then. He kept telling us all was well, but it became apparent 4 months ago that he hadn't coped at all well and was seriously behind at work and college. Hadn't been turning up much for either. He has since been off sick since, engaging well with treatment, you can see a marked improvement. However, he reamind bery anxious at the prosect of returning and he has gained a good university place for September.

Therefore he needs to leave the job. They're still paying him in full, but the only contact he's had in this time is to chase up doctors certificates.

Obviously he let himself down, I feel that I let him down by not noticing sooner how badly he was coping, but I also feel that the employer has failed him. He was 17 when his "trauma" began, wfh (covid) with very little contact from work, his mentor went on ML and the replacement was allocated from another city, but wfh. They never met and hardly spoke. Company knew about the bereavement.

Then when things started going wrong, there doesn't appear to have been any response or support from employer or college. There have been staff changes at college too and no one seems to be able to tell us exactly what he has (or hasn't) passed.

The difference in the way this (large) company responded and my own employer did, for example, is huge.

So,

• He could just leave it, keep getting signed off until they stop paying him. This doesn't seem like a good lesson for him, but I kind of feel it's what they deserve after deserting a grieving 17/18 yo.

• We could have an attempt at negotiating some sort of settlement. I think this might be possible, they'll want to solve this problem as much as we do and they can't deny there have been failings albeit, DS has failed too.

• He could just give his 4 weeks' notice. This feels like the right thing to do, but I don't know if it sells him short. It's the straightforward option, but I do feel the company should have to face their own shortcomings too.

Obviously any cash he can secure now will help while he studies.

WWYD?

They have already treated him very well OP. And I suspect they have bent their rules to keep paying him because of the circumstances.

I'm sorry for your loss OP.
I would really look into his contract as he may even be liable for costs.
I know our apprentice's are liable for % of costs up until 2 years after.

I've worked in the private sector in HR for years and years and never has anyone had a pay off for being unable to return to work. He will have accrued holidays whilst being off sick but he's on a seriously good deal getting full pay. You can ask for a pay off but you'd be seriously lucky to get it..

This is not true if its paid via the apprentice levy

I think you need to be very careful here in how your frame this for you son. Telling him that his employer has failed him will give him a very unrealistic view of the working world.

He was very, very fortunate to be kept on an paid.

I’m very sorry for your loss, it sounds like you’ve all had a terribly rough time.

I mean this with utter kindness- when you have such a traumatic event like a tragic bereavement, it can be very difficult to view the world outside of your grief. This company have been more than fair, but I think your view is coloured by the unfair situation that your family has been put in.

What we're you hoping they do exactly?? He'll be getting support from his GP. 4 weeks notice is appropriate

I think the college and company failed I’m hugely, I think you’re absolutely justifiably angry and yet I 100% think you should advise him to resign and draw a hard line under it as soon as possible.

Quick, like ripping off a plaster.

If it then makes you feel better and helps you, you can write them a ‘how to do better’ letter that they can reflect on, and hopefully act on so no one else gets neglected like your DS.

What an achievement to be going to uni this year. Amazing

This.

I'm sorry for your loss. It sounds as though your son has a great opportunity for a fresh start. Let him resign and start uni.

Maybe the employer and college weren't as on the ball as they could have been in an ideal world. It wasn't an ideal world (as you are very aware).

If they offer him an exit interview, he can provide some feedback on how the lack of connection with a mentor impacted his performance.

I hope he succeeds at uni.

Thats why I said look at contract!

OK, well he did write his letter of resignation, on my advice, this afternoon. I posted because someone else suggested we should push for the company to acknowledge their failings.

As I said, this didn't sit well with me and I had no intention of doing it. I do think the company let a young employee down and I know things would have been handled differently where I work. I acknowledge that he has done well to be paid all this time, but I also know my employer would have agreed a small settlement - they don't know he was about to resign and would have wanted to bring it to a close.

But bloody hell, talk about kick someone when they're down. Thanks all.

I'm so sorry for your loss. Of course your son has been grieving and struggling, but please don't approach the employer for some kind of settlement. He can hand his notice in and start afresh at uni, no need to end his first employment with a cloud over him by trying to hold them to ransom when it doesn't sound like they've done anything unfair towards him.

Cross Post, he's done the right thing. Always better to part on good terms if possible, you never know when he might need a good word or even another job.

I am glad the resignation letter was written, but I don’t think it helps you or your son to go on about company failings or drawing a line under things, as if the company had failed him. Seriously, the company hasn’t failed him. Quite the opposite. I’ve never heard of anyone on long-term sick reaching a settlement with the company. Why would a company do that, unless the sickness is in part due to the company -which it isn’t?

It's really very common where there are good paid sick leave T&C e.g. where I work we get 6m full pay and 6m half pay, so a person could be off for a year before they give notice or not give notice at all, even when their pay runs out. The company needs to either take action to dismiss on health capability grounds or keep the post open indefinitely. Much better for the company if they agree some sort of exit settlement.

BTW DS hasn't had more than his contractual sick pay.

I know this isn’t the place, but being dismissed on capability grounds happens all the time in my company. There’s a set process and it’s implemented frequently. It’s not better for the company to pay someone off when they don’t need to.

I'm surprised he still qualifies to be an apprentice. I work with apprentices on a graduate scheme and if they fail too many modules or fail to submit more than one assignment they stop being eligible for funding because they can no longer get the degree.

Wouldn't matter what the contract says, companies try and put all sorts of stuff in contracts that aren't lawful.

this will absolutely be a levy paid apprenticeship so any training clawback agreement wouldn't be legal.

Just trying to let op know not to panic about this

Sigh. Try being the first. This culture is wrong.

I daresay that might be the case, but as the company have never been in touch with him about anything....

Maybe they were contacting him but he just didn’t tell you. Surely you noticed that he wasn’t going to work?

No. I was at work/he was wfh

In the end I contacted them because I realised something wasn't right and that appears to be when the apprentice manager realised he hadn't been attending. Placement managers must have known but no one was doing anything.

A company has to tread very carefully at contacting someone off long term sick for fear of being pushy and adding to anxiety of coming back to work too soon. Yes they could perhaps of done more before he went off but again to get too involved in a person's private life is often a mine field. And as you point out at this time world was in turmoil and whole world was trying to adapt to WFH and living in lock down so rightly or wrongly companies where having to adapt to ever changing situations and make it up as you go. Yes if has an exit interview perhaps raise he felt unsupported but with a uni offer and the fact he's been off long term sick on full pay I would just get him to hand his notice in and move on. He may need a reference from them and sometimes for our mental health it's best just to move on and not make a fuss.

Glad he has a plan for his future and glad your workplace is supportive too OP - you've both had an incredibly tough time. Best of luck to you both.

A settlement for what? He’s been off on full pay. He should a line under it, hand in his notice and move on to university.

I am no employment lawyer. I know nothing. But I disagree with everyone. On this thread. He has been massively massively failed on so many levels.