Longterm sickness, need to resign

[Alldelicious]

DS is employed on a 4 year apprenticeship, coming to the end of the 3rd year. Started at 16.

His father was diagnosed with a terminal illness at the start of y2 and died towards the end of year2

DS did very well in year 1, but the wheels have come off since then. He kept telling us all was well, but it became apparent 4 months ago that he hadn't coped at all well and was seriously behind at work and college. Hadn't been turning up much for either. He has since been off sick since, engaging well with treatment, you can see a marked improvement. However, he reamind bery anxious at the prosect of returning and he has gained a good university place for September.

Therefore he needs to leave the job. They're still paying him in full, but the only contact he's had in this time is to chase up doctors certificates.

Obviously he let himself down, I feel that I let him down by not noticing sooner how badly he was coping, but I also feel that the employer has failed him. He was 17 when his "trauma" began, wfh (covid) with very little contact from work, his mentor went on ML and the replacement was allocated from another city, but wfh. They never met and hardly spoke. Company knew about the bereavement.

Then when things started going wrong, there doesn't appear to have been any response or support from employer or college. There have been staff changes at college too and no one seems to be able to tell us exactly what he has (or hasn't) passed.

The difference in the way this (large) company responded and my own employer did, for example, is huge.

So,

• He could just leave it, keep getting signed off until they stop paying him. This doesn't seem like a good lesson for him, but I kind of feel it's what they deserve after deserting a grieving 17/18 yo.

• We could have an attempt at negotiating some sort of settlement. I think this might be possible, they'll want to solve this problem as much as we do and they can't deny there have been failings albeit, DS has failed too.

• He could just give his 4 weeks' notice. This feels like the right thing to do, but I don't know if it sells him short. It's the straightforward option, but I do feel the company should have to face their own shortcomings too.

Obviously any cash he can secure now will help while he studies.

WWYD?

Employment shouldn't be contacting you when off, apart from requesting for doctors notes otherwise it can be counter productive- that's why it's the "preset" form of how businesses operates. In addition- your son has probably told them everything is fine; if you didn't notice how do you expect the employer/college to notice? Colleges don't care if work isn't hadn't in etc- the will just fail/pass/award a suitable grade.

Hopefully your son can reach out to the university he's starting in- ask for mental health counselling - but he needs to reach out.
Hope he improves and enjoys uni.

But isn’t that if the company are trying to get rid of someone? In this situation it’s your son who wants to leave to go to uni.m, they haven’t been pressuring him to return or leave.

Regardless of whether or not you think the employer should have done more they have been good with sick pay to him. They could have sacked him/ gone down the capability route.

My dd is considered disabled under the equality act due to diagnosed permanent health conditions and when she has any time off sick she isn’t paid. Plus her boss keeps telling her to quit

He'd been there 3 years?

Yes, there are lots of things to worry about and I'm not at all sure this is a good thing, but he seems excited about the course and a fresh start.

And yes there’s strict rules about not contacting people when they’re off sick.

I'm not exactly sure what an employer is meant to do, they were understanding, more than most, college didn't pressurise him, again more than most. On an apprenticeship they have no relationship with you and would be breaking confidence if they did contact you. In real life I've never known an employer proactively offer help to a struggling employee without the employee requesting it - I've worked in hr for multiple firms

The company did nothing wrong. They paid him in full and they gave him space and didn't hassle him. Why on earth you would expect a payoff is absolutely beyond me. That is just plain grabby when they have been good to him.

I agree.
He's been off sick, they've paid him and not bothered him, I don't see what they've done wrong. He's lucky to have a supportive employer, not everyone gets sick pay and some are constantly asked when they're coming back.

And no person on long term sick has ever had a pay off at any private sector or non profit I've worked at. That's perhaps in the realms of public sector and long term at that

You said that the first year went well, then he hadnt been turning up much for either and then been off sick plus the timespan would overlap with lockdowns. What I mean is that they wouldnt 'know' him you said his teacher had been on ML and the supervisor at work was WFH and had never met him so there is no real relationship with people at college or the workplace even if he had been there 3 years.

Just get him to type up a resignation email tonight and send it, if he wants to discuss their pastoral process then he can ask for an exit interview but I'd really think this was very simple and could all be over in 10mins, leaving him free to apply for student finance etc.

I don’t think the company have done anything wrong. Paying him full wages -for a year? is an exceptionally good deal. I’m baffled why you think there should be any sort of settlement or negotiated payoff. He should just give his notice and leave. The college is more at fault if they haven’t helped or engaged with him.

I think he's been treated quite well! He's turned in little work apart from year 1, they still pay him and no one is hounding him! When you enter the world of work you are responsible for raising things to the company - I appreciate he has had a hard time and I'm sorry for your loss but really it has to be up to him to discuss if he has problems. anything other than 4 weeks notice is very grabby in my view.

That may all be true. They may also be the worst employer ever. They did nothing illegal. He's very lucky - he has options and he's not ruined his future. Don't push your luck. He resigns and goes to university. That's the end of it.

He's already done well. He needs to give in his notice and leave.

The employer owes him nothing.

Is he off sick now? What is being done about that? How long has he been off sick?

Nevertheless, he has no intention of going back. Just hand in the notice.

Has he accrued any leave this year? If so, can he subtract this from the 4 weeks notice and leave earlier?

Much as I'm sorry for your loss please don't make it into a financial gain after all you as his parent did notice so why would his employers. Really stinks of being greedy. Just hand notice in.

Didn't notice

You don't think his employers should have noticed he wasn't turning up before the parent who was nursing his bedbound and dying father?

From my experience in public sector, if an employee doesn't raise issues that aren't obvious, we aren't responsible. That's a hill HR would die on because implications are appalling, otherwise.

College is more likely to have the kind of duty of care you're referring to but if he didn't respond to contact, they're covered.

I think you'd be opening a can of worms - it sounds as if he wasn't doing his job and they can hit back with details of that if you make it their problem. That's bad for him.

Also - he's off to university. He needs to be responsible for articulating his own needs there. Don't drag him back into a morass for the sake of an unlikely payout. If he's still signed off sick he's getting pay in lieu of notice in effect anyway, surely? Or he must have accrued a fair amount of leave.

I wouldn't say he had let himself down and I'm sorry for his loss - yours too if that's the case. But help him to move on now that he has a chance.

I would be wary of flagging anything to the company that might raise some queries over his long-term absence, and his full pay. Most companies would have dismissed him by now -but perhaps apprenticeships are different. Condolences to both of you, though.

It sounds brutal, but that’s the difference between education and the world of work (whether as an apprentice or full employee)

That's not true. He was a minor at the time, they should have been safeguarding him in the same way as if he was at sixth form.