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Original poster

Colleague buggering off home early. As their manager, would this bother you?

410 replies

Marie2022 · 27/07/2022 03:08

I have been in post for a few weeks and have had some problems with one of my direct reports. Nothing serious, mainly of the “Not my job” type of response from her, regarding things that very clearly are her job.

I sent her an email a few days ago at a time when she should have seen it. She didn’t reply. At which point someone said that she wasn’t actually there. The following day I asked her to confirm her hours, which she did.

I have just checked the CCTV for the past 2 weeks and she has been leaving 10-20 minutes early every single day.

Is this a big deal? As a manager, would this bother you? I just want to get some opinions before I do anything.

Many thanks.

OP posts:
HelpMeGetThrough · 27/07/2022 03:15

Both of these issues would.

The "not my job" issue, get their JD and if what you are asking them to do is in the JD, point it out and tell them they will be doing the task. Failure to, would be a trip to HR.

The leaving early, they would be told in no uncertain terms it stops immediately, otherwise another quick trip to HR and a first written warning would be coming their way.

anonymoooose · 27/07/2022 03:29

@HelpMeGetThrough yes yes yes!

anonymoooose · 27/07/2022 03:33

I just don't understand the gall of some people.

I would never say it's not in my job description ( but then I am a people pleaser and go above and beyond for people but I digress).
Always stick to my hours unless I need to leave early for something in which case I would ask if I can work my lunch break or come in earlier the next day.

Some people 🤦🏽‍♀️
Definitely say something. Sounds like she's got away with it for too long

Happyhappyday · 27/07/2022 03:38

I think it depends on the workplace. I have worked places where we were required to be at our desks at certain times and where we were just expected to get our work done with maybe some loose core hours. The clock watching places and managers were miserable to work for!

if you require all employees at their desks during certain hours then it’s reasonable to bring them up on it.

HerRoyalNotness · 27/07/2022 03:40

Yes. Don’t JD have a general statement about “and other duties as required” to cover all sorts of stuff, that’s aside from you saying it is her job she is refusing

the leaving early I’d ask what is going on and why she’s doing it. If she has a specific reason I might ask if she’d like reduced hrs/pay by half an hour officially if that fits with business needs or she’ll have to stop doing it or make up the time in the morning. Do you have Flex Time?

soupmaker · 27/07/2022 03:42

Unlikely, but check that there isn't some agreement from before your time about her leaving time.

Why are you checking CCTV? Do staff know they are being monitored that way?

I would be addressing both issues sooner rather than later by asking her questions about why she views some tasks as not being her job and why she's leaving before the end of the working day. Preferably in a supervision meeting with notes taken.

MrsTerryPratchett · 27/07/2022 03:47

I sent her an email a few days ago at a time when she should have seen it. She didn’t reply. At which point someone said that she wasn’t actually there. The following day I asked her to confirm her hours, which she did.

I wouldn't have checked CCTV at this point. I would have asked why she hadn't responded and if she is available to work until her leaving time. Is it a job where you have to be present or you have to have your work completed. It would be a massive issue where I work.

SofiaAmes · 27/07/2022 03:48

Is the person young. It seems from what I'm hearing that you have to set clear boundaries and expectations. I have a friend who when she took over managing a problematic department, sent an email to everyone telling them when they were expecting to be answering emails AND even the time frame in which she expected them to answer emails. This was during the pandemic and everyone was working from home, so there wasn't an issue of being "in the office" but there was definitely an issue of being available to do their work. And she had to reiterate to each person what their job description was and what her expectations were. It sounds silly....people should know this and self inform about these things, but the younger generation don't. She got good results from delineating everything to the people who reported to her.

mocktail · 27/07/2022 04:01

Both things are issues.

However so is checking CCTV! Or is that fine where you work for some reason?!

Original poster
Marie2022 · 27/07/2022 06:09

The CCTV covers the car park so we could see what time her car was no longer in the car park. I didn’t realise that was frowned upon, so that’s good to know.

OP posts:
DurhamDurham · 27/07/2022 06:30

I think you need to start communicating with the people you manage rather than monitoring their movements on cctv. Why was this your first line of action? Do you have the confidence and skills to line manage people?
A discussion, with notes taken, will gather far more information than looking at cctv will.

Andromachehadabadday · 27/07/2022 06:35

I don’t wish this to sound snarky. But are you new to management?

someone refusing to do work, that is in their job description AND leaving early everyday is a big deal.

Going and checking CCTV without speaking to someone is a bit odd. Either you think she is the type that would lie outright, or you aren’t confident in having this conversation.

That said, is sending an email 20 minutes before someone’s finish time and expecting a reply reasonable in your line of work? I have worked in a few industries and in non of mine it would. Unless it was urgent and something quick to reply to, in which case you would call the person and speak to them.

Your post comes across as you are very unsure of yourself and/or your role. And the role of your team.

UserError012345 · 27/07/2022 06:37

Ok I can see why you checked CCTV - it was to prove that she wasn't working when she was meant to be. If you have a conversation, perhaps best to not mention it.

Do staff have to complete timesheets?

The 'not my job' attitude needs addressing. Especially if it is!

BattenburgDonkey · 27/07/2022 06:37

Of course it should bother you, they have a bad attitude and leave early despite being paid, they very clearly don’t respect you as a manager. You need to manage this person properly and stop this behaviour or your other staff will be very resentful and this staff members behaviour will worsen because they no they can get away with it.

I think it’s relatively normal to look at CCTV, I’ve had plenty of bosses that have done it.

girlmom21 · 27/07/2022 06:39

FWIW I'm generally not responding to an email from my manager 20 minutes before the end of my working day either. If it's urgent you can call. If it's not you can wait.

There's a good chance that I'll be wrapping up something else.
If works quiet, I probably will get an early dart. And I'll stay late when it's busy.

If my manager has no trust in me and decides to start micromanaging for no real reason I wouldn't respond well.

If you were getting complaints that people are getting work completed late I'd understand but you're not.

ArnoldBee · 27/07/2022 06:44

Checking the cctv is very dodgy and cannot be used as evidence and you may get into hot water yourself. There are very strict rules and actual laws on this.

yecartmannew · 27/07/2022 06:44

Does she take a lunch break?
Maybe she works through her lunch and then takes it at the end of the day?
This could be some sort of legacy arrangement from before your time.

SilverGlitterBaubles · 27/07/2022 06:44

Are you new to the company or department? Could it be that there was some agreement in place previously for this person to leave a bit earlier - shorter lunch break? Coming in earlier? Is there anyone senior that you can ask for some background before wading in feet first. If not perhaps a little catch-up chat to reiterate job role, hours etc and then follow up two weeks later with HR if no improvements.

ODFOx · 27/07/2022 06:46

Did you check the cctv to see what time she arrives as well? It may be that previous management allowed some discretion as long as hours were filled.
Unless it is a customer facing role it may not have been perceived as an issue.
Email isn't an instant messaging tool: if you need an immediate reply then call.

Schooldil3ma · 27/07/2022 06:47

It really depends on the culture and policies where you are.
My Manager would never really know where I am, I'm often on visits, at meetings, maybe on the school run...he doesn't care, u get my work done to a very high standard.
If your work is more "you must be here, at your desk, from 9-5" then you need to address it.
Stop checking the CCTV though, have a grown up conversation with her instead.

exnewwifeproblems · 27/07/2022 06:49

Does your cctv use case statement say it will be used to check attendance?

What is your company standard for responding to an email? Our standard is 72 hours - if it's more urgent than that you're expected to send an instant message or lift the phone.

Whyareblokesonhere · 27/07/2022 06:52

ArnoldBee · 27/07/2022 06:44

Checking the cctv is very dodgy and cannot be used as evidence and you may get into hot water yourself. There are very strict rules and actual laws on this.

The second part of your statement is true but the first is completely wrong - you would need to have good reason as per those rules/laws you mention and you'd be best off knowing what you are doing before hand but yes CCTV could be used as evidence if everything is followed correctly

Whether that's best practise for things as basic as the OP mentions is an entirely different point and as others have said, a lot will depend on the actual need and business culture - empowered and flexible (both ways) is statistically much better for productive teams but it needs to be in a way that is fair and transparent for everyone

C0mfyChairP0se · 27/07/2022 06:53

anonymoooose · 27/07/2022 03:33

I just don't understand the gall of some people.

I would never say it's not in my job description ( but then I am a people pleaser and go above and beyond for people but I digress).
Always stick to my hours unless I need to leave early for something in which case I would ask if I can work my lunch break or come in earlier the next day.

Some people 🤦🏽‍♀️
Definitely say something. Sounds like she's got away with it for too long

Same here, i must be so easy to manage! But then, I think some people hate you for being a nice person.

I'd ask her if she's happy. Does she think the job suits her?

I've been trapped in saying things that hung me before with that style of questioning. Even though they weren't helping me/talking to me.

Wartywart · 27/07/2022 06:54

Is she arriving 10 or 20 minutes early each day? Maybe there's an agreement from before your time that if she's done her hours for the day she can leave?

Don't mention checking CCTV. She'll think you've got a bee in your bonnet about her - it sounds a bit obsessive and you might eventually find yourself accused of unfair harassment in the workplace etc.

Also as others have said - not all emails are going to get answered just before someone leaves for the day. Your expectations sound a bit too much.

ememem84 · 27/07/2022 07:07

I sometimes leave 15/20 minutes early. But then I’m usually in the office at least 30 minutes early so it balances out. The boss doesn’t mind as long as the work gets done and we don’t take the piss.