Colleague buggering off home early. As their manager, would this bother you?

[Marie2022]

I have been in post for a few weeks and have had some problems with one of my direct reports. Nothing serious, mainly of the “Not my job” type of response from her, regarding things that very clearly are her job.

I sent her an email a few days ago at a time when she should have seen it. She didn’t reply. At which point someone said that she wasn’t actually there. The following day I asked her to confirm her hours, which she did.

I have just checked the CCTV for the past 2 weeks and she has been leaving 10-20 minutes early every single day.

Is this a big deal? As a manager, would this bother you? I just want to get some opinions before I do anything.

Many thanks.

If she is not getting her work done then you need to raise this with her. I am in the camp of if I get the job done and done well then no need to check on my timing

There could be loads of legitimate reasons for the leaving early, OP, but you will only find out if you ask the employee. Maybe she had agreed that arrangement with your predecessor?

As for the "not my job" responses, this again could be something that had been established but not documented by the previous manager. If it's in her JD, have a chat with her in which you point out that it actually is her job and explain that from now on, you'd like her to do it.

The monitoring her leaving times by checking cctv is really creepy and control freaky and if I knew a manager had done that to me I'd be really pissed off.

I also think it's quite common for managers new to an organisation to get a feel for the culture. I work for an organisation that is very flexible and appears quite laid back, but very effective and right on it when it comes to the things that matter. We've had new managers join (pre-Covid) who couldn't get their heads round the fact that it's perfectly ok to go home early if your last appointment is near where you live and miles from the office. One actually expected staff to do a 40 minute drive that would have given them around 10 minutes in the office before the "official" finish time. They had to have it explained to them that staff are treated like adults and act like adults and don't take the piss.

If my manager checked the movement of my car on cctv I'd quit on the spot. No way would I work for that person. And you have a job description for a reason. If its outside the JD you need a decent reason to ask them to do it and their consent. If a person is generally good at their job, why care if they leave a bit early? Have you had a CONVERSATION with the people you manage? I suggest you attend a management course or give up management.

😮

“Of course it should bother you, they have a bad attitude and leave early despite being paid, they very clearly don’t respect you as a manager. You need to manage this person properly and stop this behaviour or your other staff will be very resentful and this staff members behaviour will worsen because they no they can get away with it.”

^This. It will have been notice by colleagues and you need to address her behaviour

Call employee in for meeting, state your concerns and expectations firmly and do a written record. You are the manager so you need to be assertive. Obviously listen to the employee but the bottom line is what her contract and job description state.

I too wonder if you’re new to management.

Jobs and therefore management differ though. In some jobs, people are expected to work their exact hours and are pretty much micro-managed, because the jobs are tedious and unless they are, they won’t do their hours or work. To be honest, it sounds like one of those situations. In this case, management often has to be quite school-teacherly and make it clear what’re expectations are and follow up things like slipping off early. In large companies there will be an HR Dept to follow up any ongoing issues, but in smaller companies there usually isn’t.

It sounds like this employee is trying to get an upper hand at the start. Trying to establish that they and not you decide what they do, and choosing when to go home without you challenging it, is establishing themselves as in charge and the fact you’re clearly uncertain about challenging them will be recognised by them and taken advantage of. It’s important at the start to be clear and make clear that you’re noticing what goes in and are clear about what each persons role involves…..several weeks in you shouldn’t be unclear and reliant on them telling you what is in their remit or not. You should have got this info before starting. You need to toughen up a bit now by the sound if it. Quite likely it won’t be popular. Some managers deal with this stuff by emailing the team to remind them of things like being in site until their hours are up. Others will address an individual. To be honest, being a manager does involve some tricky conversations sometimes and you have to be prepared to do it and not be a coward.

Of course, in lots of jobs, it’s not about clock watching. In lots of roles, people work far more hours than what’s contracted and just work until the job is done….this is usually in professional roles. Managing such workers is t usually about checking if they are at their desk at a particular point.

Theres definitely a knack to management. You need to get the respect of the Team and be both approachable and decent to interact with, but also clearly in charge. You’re not there to be their friend. However, being friendly is certainly a good thing. Your own bosses should be facilitating you in your own role….that means making clear what the role of those you manage is and what js expected of you - should you be ensuring they are at their desk until hours are up, can you ask them to do tasks not explicitly listed in job descriptions etc, what to do if people are awkward in whatever way. If you haven’t been given this info, your managers aren’t doing their job. As ever, good communication and clarity is what makes all these things run smoothly. You need to get some clarity yourself and then establish it with your team.

It depends on your workplace culture. I manage a busy team but they're all high performers who work hard. If they want to leave early or come in later, I'm ok with that as long as the work gets done to a really high standard. But there's also an expectation that occasionally they will need to work late if a project runs over and sometimes if something breaks, there will be a call or a text at the weekend. It works both ways. If they don't watch the clock and are prepared to occasionally chuck in extra time, then I don't mind if they need flexibility too.

But it sounds as though this person is having a bit of a laugh. I wouldn't immediately tell her that you've checked CCTV but you could explain you'd emailed her and a colleague said she'd left. If she denies it then you can share that you know the truth. Basically, document everything!

Yes. Massive big deal. Failure to work contracted hours and failure to follow a reasonable management instruction.

You need to nip this in the bud straight away op. If you have a HR dept get them to advise you on your policies.

Pull your employee into an investigation meeting with you today. Ask them why they have been leaving 10-20 mins early and who they took authorisation from.

Depending what comes out of that. Invite to disciplinary. They are taking the piss and seeing it they can get away with it. If the business has a flexible or hybrid working policy then your employee will be able to tell you about that.

The OP says she asked her to confirm her hours. Surely if there was some sort of agreement for them to vary she would have said so?

My very thought

Agree with everyone else that this needs looking into properly, including whether she arrives early/works through lunch - though with the "not my job" attitude I suspect there's not much doubt about what you'll find. Much better to start in a spirit of enquiry rather than criticism in case there's a legitimate reason for it all

However I wouldn't get bogged down in childcare and other "home" issues as they're the employee's responsibility not yours. In fact in any other circumstances you'd be told (correctly) that her personal affairs are none of your business - except of course when it suits

What’s the system in place in your company?

eg

• is there some sort of unofficial flexi time going on where people are arriving early and then leaving earlier too? (I’m assuming from your post that proper flexi time isn’t in place).


• does your employee have a contract specify clearly what is and isn’t in he remit? I’m wondering if stuff hasn’t been added to her workload over time Wo any acknowledgement of it (aka still the same position with the same wage)


• how much work does your employee have? Some companies are very good at piling on more work onto people, leading to people being overworked and ‘refusing work’ because they ant do it all in the hours they are supposed to work.

Basically, on paper I agree that if you have fixed hours, people should be there during that time. They should also not refuse to do some work etc…
But I’ve worked for companies that expected people to arrive early and stay later with no flexibility which is shit. I’ve also been in the place where, if you do your job well and efficiently, you end up propping everyone else which is also shit.

Impossible to say what’s going on there from your posts.

This would be fine so long as there aren't core hours that you have to be at work for. If you decide to attend work 10-20 minutes earlier than your allocated start time, that's up to you but if your employer has said that you have to be at work until 3:30pm or 4pm or whatever, then, as far as I'm aware, you have to be at work until that time.
You may have an informal arrangement with your manager at the time but you really should be at work until the time that you're not supposed to be at work. I don't think there is an unwritten rule that just because you might start work early it means that you can finish work early too.

Same as others..

I'm not sure how you have ended up in a line management position if you are asking whether it's reasonable for people to consistently leave early without you finding out why, or if an employee can flatly refuse to do one of their responsibilities.

You have had the answer to your questions, but I would get yourself some leadership and management training as soon as possible otherwise you will be walked all over.

I remember a place where everyone HAD TO have one hour lunch break. Too short to do anything so people were still eating at their desk and ended up doing some work. 1/2 to 45 mins ‘won’ by the company for free….

Most people would have preferred to have half hour and stop half an hour earlier.

There may be other things going on here. Before jumping in, you may want to look at this.

For example, I have worked in my current role for 3 years. Up until a month ago I was highly motivated, worked above and beyond and did work at home. On the other hand my colleagues take the piss, are always off sick and many of them are on full pay whist working half hours as they profess to have long covid, which doesn't seem to affect their lives outside work. Guess who has been picking up all this slack?

I have just stopped doing everyone else's job and am now only doing my own, and I don't work a minute past my hours.

Check around the reasons first before you potentially lose a good employee.

It's not frowned upon, I would check the CCTV to see if and when my staff were leaving. It is in their job description to work their contracted hours and if they are not and you can evidence they're not, then it's no longer a questionable occurence. It is evidence and you can prove it. Nothing wrong with it at all.

Have you checked what time she starts? Could she be starting earlier and then leaving earlier? If this is the case then ideally she should have spoken to someone about it to make sure it’s ok but definitely find out all the information before confronting her.

Can you have an informal meeting to discuss what is expected of her and clear up her job roles so she understands that what you are asking to do is part of her role?

seems like this person is testong the waters.

great advice from others.

possibly consider a people management course.
it's tough dealing with cheeky fuckers and bullies, you need the right tools or you can end up on the wrong side of an expensive court case.

You (the manager) need to go over the job description and hours of work. You need to manage her since she appears to be running free and doing what she wants. Are you scared to do this? Some managers are ineffective because they don't tackle issues and let things slide and then CF's run a mock and it annoys other hard working staff members. It appears you aren't doing your job description too OP since you aren't 'managing'

I think checking the cctv is fine in this instance, she could claim she was in the loo, or a meeting room or elsewhere in the building, her car leaving the car park says different.

I think you sound a little uptight OP (sorry!).

I'd never expect my manager to check my movements on CCTV, or even to expect an immediate reply to an email (which I assume this is since you've said she's only leaving 10-20 minutes early, so guessing that's the period in which you sent your email).

The things she's refusing to do which are part of her job description is an issue though. I'd sit down with her and go through what you believe her duties to be and see what she says. It's possible she just wasn't doing certain elements before and so hasn't realised they should be part of her role.

If the leaving early thing really bothers you, I'd send an email to your team reminding them that they must be on site until X o'clock as that is their contracted hours. Hopefully she'll get the message.

…but if you were leaving early every day, you would accept that you’re the problem that led to the investigation, no?
Or would you expect your colleagues who didn’t leave early to just tolerate your goings-home?

…She was brilliant and I have her on my shoulder every day when I’m at work - she showed me what it really means to manage - it’s about getting alongside people rather than controlling them.

@EnidSpyton How lovely to read this. What a great legacy. And what a wonderful woman she must have been. Op and other managers on this thread should read your post and aspire to be like your old boss!

Workplaces always have one CF'er who tries their luck persistently.

Managing employees is a minefield, but people like this end up really lowering morale if they're seen to be "getting away" with poor behaviour. I would pass it higher up, say what you've noticed and ask if there is some agreement with their hours in place before tackling them.

Both of those are performance issues and I'd be starting with a chat about both issues, with a view that we were having an informal discussion at that point, but it could move to a more formal discussion if not addressed.

If you don't tackle it now you're creating a bigger issue.