Colleague buggering off home early. As their manager, would this bother you?

[Marie2022]

I have been in post for a few weeks and have had some problems with one of my direct reports. Nothing serious, mainly of the “Not my job” type of response from her, regarding things that very clearly are her job.

I sent her an email a few days ago at a time when she should have seen it. She didn’t reply. At which point someone said that she wasn’t actually there. The following day I asked her to confirm her hours, which she did.

I have just checked the CCTV for the past 2 weeks and she has been leaving 10-20 minutes early every single day.

Is this a big deal? As a manager, would this bother you? I just want to get some opinions before I do anything.

Many thanks.

The biggest risk here is that you become the dreaded micro manager. Tread very carefully and come from a place of building understanding and setting out expectations without making assumptions and accusations. I would hate to work somewhere that I couldn’t leave 20 mins early now and then, but I am pretty used to flexi time from my very first job.

FWIW I'm generally not responding to an email from my manager 20 minutes before the end of my working day either. If it's urgent you can call. If it's not you can wait

I'm afraid you wouldn't last very long at my workplace with that attitude

I can’t believe you actually checked CCTV.

I suspect you’re new to management. The best managers I had were those that didn’t micro manage. The worst one I had was one who clocked watched. It’s not just about the clock watching, but it’s indicative of a management style that fails to treat employees as grown ups.

Have a word with her, tell her you’ve been noticing she’s leaving early and is all ok / is there a reason / do you need to change her hours. But definitely don’t admit you went as far as snooping on her movements. Management is a two way relationship - it’s not just about you managing the staff who report to you, but also them feeling like you’re approachable and supportive as a manager.

I'm afraid that would be your loss.

If I'm not busy enough that you contacting me via email 20 minutes before the end of my working day would become my priority I wouldn't be interested in working for you anyway.

As I say, if it's urgent, you can call. I'm not sitting on tenterhooks waiting for your email to come in.

You need to actually have a conversation with this employee and work out what’s going on rather than sneaking around behind her back to gather evidence.

Having been a manager for a long time, when someone is leaving early and is quibbling over their job role, these are big signs that they are dissatisfied and demotivated. Rather than going in all guns blazing and involving HR, arrange a chat just the two of you in a neutral environment with a coffee and find out what’s going on. There may be personal issues that are affecting her, or it may be that she’s feeling stuck in a rut with the job role. Maybe before you joined she’d gone for a promotion and didn’t get it. There could be all sorts of reasons why she’s behaving as she is and building a rapport and showing support rather than immediately wanting to discipline and punish will be much more effective at finding a solution.

I had a wonderful manager in my first job who called me in for a chat when she noticed I was behaving like this at work. She helped me articulate my frustration and boredom and work out what I wanted from my job role. She then found ways to give me new opportunities and responsibilities, with a view to helping me get the job I really wanted elsewhere. Even though she knew I would eventually need to leave to get what I really wanted, she made the effort to make the time I had with the company the best possible for me in terms of growing me as a person. She was brilliant and I have her on my shoulder every day when I’m at work - she showed me what it really means to manage - it’s about getting alongside people rather than controlling them.

I think you need to get in front of this because as long as she gets away with it she will and it will annoy the other team members.

You get one in every team. Leaving early, taking long lunch breaks, refusing to do the work and the rest of the team pick up the slack which is unfair.

Do you know what time she arrives or how long she took for lunch? My workplace allowed us to be flexible so I would regularly leave ‘early’ but I came in early or took a short lunch so I could do that.

But then you have to ensure you take a job that offers flexi time. Not take any job and think your manager is a ‘dreaded micro manager’ for not allowing you just to wander in and out as you please.

Yep. This is what you need to think as a manager, of the whole team. When she says ‘I’m not doing that’ who does it? When she leaves early who is covering her? If the answer is ‘the rest of the team’ then you will soon be building resentment and upset in the team as they see that they are working twice for someone else to do half.

I would definitely want to nip all of this firmly in the bud- I had no time for presenteeism and was more about getting the work done to the right standard during core hours then being a bit more relaxed knowing that at certain times there might be later finishes. But I appreciate some work places require a presence from 9-5. Check if she has an arrangement in place, e.g. an early start.

If not, what I would not accept from a direct report is dishonesty (here about working hours). I'd check with HR about letting her know you have been looking at CCTV.

Check her JD. Have a discussion with her about constantly pushing back on work. Show her where her JD covers these tasks (and any clause about 'other tasks as required' or however it is phrased).

Ask why she is doing this. If she says the workload is too much, she is not trained, she has been told differently before then you can address these points. Make it clear that these tasks are part of her job and if she is just refusing to complete them then disciplinary procedures will be started.

From experience, I found it worth going in hard but fair on entitlement straight off, and minuting all of these conversations.

My workplace used cctv to support sacking someone for attendance but had to pay her off because she claimed for unfair dismissal,and they were told at pre-hearing stage by legal they'd be likely to lose because staff hadn't been told it was there and could be used for that....just a warning.

Why are your staff in the office but not you? If you are, check what time she's arriving and leaving yourself!
I'd focus more on her work than her timeliness - if she's late to work AND finishes early AND takes a long lunch break but only puts down 20 mins then fair enough, she is misrepresenting her hours, but if she's otherwise working to time picking on her for 10 mins isn't going to come across well. I'm sure there are other people who "waste" more than 10 mins per day chatting making tea or going for fag breaks.

StrangeCondition · Today 08:28
FWIW I'm generally not responding to an email from my manager 20 minutes before the end of my working day either. If it's urgent you can call. If it's not you can wait.
I'm afraid you wouldn't last very long at my workplace with that attitude

Why not StrangeCondition? I don't read emails continuously, nor do I expect my reports to. Like a lot of time management best practices, I allocate time for emails. Plus depending on meetings and a myriad of other tasks I may not read an email for hours or even next day. Emails are just one of many forms of communication I use.

Do you have supervision meetings with your team? Ie regular meetings where you don't talk about tasks but more about their welfare, job satisfaction, training needs, development aspirations etc? Once per quarter gives you the opportunity to build a strong and supportive relationship of mutual respect.

Of course, you should be supportive and respectful between meetings, but this is dedicated time that's fixed in the diary with a quiet room.

It's because when some people become managers they think want they need or want at that exact moment in time trumps everything else you could possibly be doing.

I've experienced quite a few of those types in my time.

It sounds very unreasonable but it depends what the role is and what the rules were before you came.

In my old place we were allowed to leave up to 30mins early if we had worked through lunch and completed all of our work.

In my current role we can leave after a certain time which is an hour before our contracted time but you have to make up the hours.
Some people prefer to leave earlier 4 days a week and then have one longer day where they can get all of their work done in one go.

Some people were taking the mick a bit though so my manager asked everyone to make sure everyone was making up their hours.
A couple of weeks later she asked that everyone start writing their start and finish times down for their own records and in case anyone asks for it.
Then a couple weeks later she doubled checked everyone’s hours as she had ‘forgot’.

So she came in quite soft and gave us chances to stop taking the piss.

One lady had a different contract and found out that she had a set finish time unlike the others.

I would start by gently reminding the group of their hours.

I would absolutely pick her up on the email though!
If it’s her work hours, it’s her work hours and emails should be responded to (if you have computer access) right up to 5mins before.

I wish every manager would read this! I too have had wonderful support like this and it is absolutely the way to make people flourish.

A few weeks in is way to early to start ruffling feathers and disciplining someone, no one will thank you for it. Concentrate on building relationships and trust and only then start to manage people out if you need to. Keep the rules light and breezy and aimed at everyone, don’t single out the poor performers yet.

Going home early if all the work is done, not an issue.

Refusing to do their job - completely an issue.

I'd first off start with a round of 1 to 1s and address these points as to why she won't do the work, and combined with the leaving work early suggests issues so you are going to need to work closely with her for a while to manage her properly.

Do you work in an office with your team?

I don’t wish this to sound snarky. But are you new to management. someone refusing to do work, that is in their job description AND leaving early everyday is a big deal

Leaving work every day 20 mins early is basically considered theft against the company and is a sackable offence. Every week she is being paid for 100 mins that she is not working. Over a month, a year, this becomes a lot. My husbands nephew has just been sacked for exactly this and in my current role 6 people were sacked instantly for it when management looked at staff log in/log out times.

The 'not in my JD' thing is also serious and you need to sit down with her JD and HR and go through what is in it and what you expect. She sounds like an absolute piss taker. Not pleasant to have to deal with if you're new but if you don't she will run rings around you and the rest of the team will have no respect for you. Get help from your line manager or HR

OP can you ask HR if they have previously had any issues with this lady. She sounds trouble tbh. If she is leaving early, without starting early (though I would have an issue with this as how to you ensure cover etc) she is essentially being paid for work she is not completing. 20 minutes per day over a month soon adds up. if that amount were deducted from her monthly salary she would object!. My work has a huge element of dispute resolution and all that entails. I can tell you from experience that behaviour such as hers is normally entrenched and is challenge to manage. It can be though, just follow procedures to the letter.

I would check with HR, then directly challenge her, ie Hi Julie, Ive noticed that you are leaving early each day, can ~I ask why and also who you have agreed this with as if you have not agreed it this is an unauthorised absence from work and not acceptable. Ask he when she plans to make this time up. Personally I would hold the line very strongly with her. Certainly on the "not my job" response.

I had a very difficult staff member, an older lady who, because I was younger than her, felt she did not have to accept direction from me. I tried various methods to resolve things but in the end I took her down the disciplinary route (she was also quite a bully to other team members). I documented everything and in the end dismissed her. The change in the office when she left was immense. Send a message to her OP about what you wont stand for and do it quick as she will run rings around you if you dont!

Astounded by this attitude. I guess it depends on the culture but I respond to my boss’s emails immediately. I wouldn’t feel comfortable just leaving him hanging and he would chase me up anyway

20 minutes before the end of your formal working hours is still within the time parameter of when you should be working so why can’t you respond?

Perhaps previous manager agreed flexi time?
what time does she arrive?
I agree you need to spend some time in the office if you’re managing the staff there

Going home early if all the work is done, not an issue
It absolutely is. You are contracted by your company for a certain amount of hours, you can't have staff just wandering off whenever they feel like it.

At this point it wouldn’t “bother me”. But you need to assert yourself if she is the “it’s not my job” kind of employee. That attitude can happen when there has been historically a “job creep” (tasks chucked at people that really are NOT their jobs), or employee is overworked, or employee is lazy and trying it on.

Just start optimistically with a direct but friendly conversation - “oh I noticed you didn’t see my email the other day, another time if I have something urgent near end of day i will ping you in Teams to let you know I need a reply before you leave. But aside from that, I tried to catch you before you but your colleague said you already left around x o’clock , whereas I thought your hours mean you are in the office til y o’clock. Wondered if you had an arrangement with previous manager to short your lunch break and leave early? As they didn’t leave me any notes about that.”

see what kind of reply you get, in a lot of jobs there is some day to day flexibility around start and leave times, especially if there are other times of the week or month when you are expected to stay late and do unpaid overtime. Establishing goodwill is more important than clocking on and clocking off, but if the person is pushing back and not delivering on their core job responsibilities then you need to jump on that firmly and state that you consider it is directly part of their job and expect them to do it as requested.

Managers monitoring their staff on CCTV rather than discussing issues. As a leader, would this alarm you?